[mon478]

hello.

I am looking for a new camcorder . It will be used mainly for general family events.

I would want to record, then transfer to mac (firewire or usb) then burn to dvd.

I don't really want to spend more than £350

I have browsed the forums and it seems most people favour DV, but i stil llike the convenience of no tapes with HDD.

I have seen a cheap Sony HC37 £150 DV
Panasonic GS320 £270 DV
Sony SR52 £295 HDD
I have also seen a used Canon HV10 for £360.

Any recommendations which reflect my requirements.
other than those above would be appreciated
Thanks

[redsox_mark]

As long as the HV10 is in good condition, it is the best of the bunch.
I also like the Panasonic GS320.
If you can stretch a bit more Panasonic H250 is a decent HDD cam
http://www.pricerunner.co.uk/pl/8-86...Compare-Prices

[rhubarbe]

I have an HV10, amongst others.

I like it.

OT I know, but what happened to the thanks on this forum? Blogs?? Movies?? I am not interested in all that.

[redsox_mark]

I agree about the thanks... it's still there in the detailed profile, but I think it is more interesting to show on the main screen than favourite films...

But hey, we have "cash" now in our profiles.. .

[rhubarbe]

What's the cash about, then?

[redsox_mark]

The cash is play money to use in the AV forums Casino...(I only found this today when I had a search around to find out what the cash was about...)

[rhubarbe]

Oh right. How can you gamble with play money?

[Dunkwho]

*click* and you're back in the room

I'm agonising on pretty much the same topic ... Panasonic 320 DV machine for £275, or H250 HDD for £375. Arrrrgggh, I make my mind up for the DV (great value for money, HDD just isn't worth £100), then move back to the HDD (real time copy to the PC, you must be joking!)

What other aspects of the machines can I use to compare - I can't get my hands on either of them in local retailers to try for myself. Is one bigger\heavier than the other, etc? What about tape noise on the 320 ... a few months ago when I thought about this last (at the time a Canon seemed to be the model that everyone owas suggesting) I kept reading about people hearing the motor whir of the tape drive through the built in mic ... is that true of the 320 - is that a lever to push me up to the HDD machine?

Thanks,
Duncan.

[rhubarbe]

I found, with my new HV10, that if you wind the new motor back and forth a few times with a tape in the drive, that the motor noise diminishes.

HDD cam: you go on holiday and you have enough HDD speace for six hours. OK, six hours used, now what do you do? You have to take a PSU tank with you to download the footage from the camcorder.

Or you have a stack of ten or so MiniDV tapes...

I don't want to persuade you. My main cam is a Pana HDC-SD7, and it uses SDHC. I do have a PSU tank, but to save on space I went on holiday with 5 x 8GB SDCH card and a 4GB card. Very very expensive.

I suppose it comes down to video quality. if you are going to keep the camera still then AVCHD is fine, but if you intend to pan, much, then HDV does it better.

[happyhomer]

I'm not particularly experienced in camcorders; the thing that has put me off is that in every DV one that I have used/seen at friends the sound from the tape motor is evident on playback. That alone would be enough to persuade me to get an HDD model.

[rhubarbe]

But by the same token, a nice low sound floor and a picture that breaks up horizontally every time you pan, just a little bit, would be better?

[Dunkwho]

Originally Posted by rhubarbe

... a picture that breaks up horizontally every time you pan, just a little bit, would be better?

say what !? That doesn't sound very nice

Thankfully the H250 is both HDD and SD for both recording and still capture - so should I ever get to fill the HDD (honestly very unlikely for me, but worth keeping in mind) then at least there is a fall back option of using SD cards.

Love to hear from users of the 320 and 250 models specifically

[redsox_mark]

Size/weight differences are not significant.

H250

Weight (w/o Battery)
460 g

Dimensions(W x H x D)
83 x 75.8 x 121.0 mm

GS320

Weight (w/o Battery)
450g

Dimensions(W x H x D)
78.5 x 72.6 x 136.0 mm

Motor noise is not an issue on the GS320.

With standard definition cams, the issues with the compression are less than with HD (AVCHD). MPEG2 is more compressed than DV, but is very mature. So in terms of quality there will be little difference between them. DV remains the best value for money, but if you want HDD and are willing to pay the extra, then that’s fine.

For anyone who has done any editing (on a PC, with editing software), real time capture to PC with tape really isn’t an issue, it will be dwarfed by the time you are likely to spend editing and then rendering out the edited video. And during realtime capture you have a choice; you can do something else at the same time, or you can watch the video and make notes for your editing.

For me, where HDD really stands out is if you don’t want to edit on a PC, you can do basic editing of your clips on the camcorder itself and just copy the clips you want.

[felix2]

I had a Panasonic GS180 for about a year, and never heard any motor noise troubles. It was a better built-in mic and picked up less motor noise than my old Sony Digital 8 (which can have some quite loud motor noise in some conditions), and probably even than my new Sony HC7 (by a tiny margin). The GS320 should be the same.

[mon478]

thanks for the replies.

ihave read that the HV10 has no HDMI out..? how would i be able to watch this then on a HD tv? with no hdmi or dvi out. wouldnt it be less quality?

ive narrowed it down to the hv10 and GS320

unless any other suggestions fit the budget?

[rhubarbe]

The HV10 only has component video out, so you could either connect to an HDTV using component, or you could buy one of these:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA:IT&ih=008

They are also available with YUV + analogue audio in and hdmi out. Just do a search.

If you find a reasonably priced one that has YUV + digital optical in and hdmi out, please give me a shout.

[redsox_mark]

In terms of quality I can't see any difference between using component and HDMI connections.... though for flexibility at least having HDMI is nice.

[rhubarbe]

There isn't any difference as far as I can tell. It's just that loads of UK TVs don't have YUV in.

If the TV has YUV in then it's just that and an analogue audio pair.

[mon478]

hi

i have a dvi and component connection.

so you are saying that the component port is capable of the 1080i? same as hdmi/dvi.

thanks

[redsox_mark]

From the camcorder perspective, yes.
I can't comment on the specific component connections on your TV, but if the TV supports 1080i and has component inputs, then I would expect these to support 1080i.

[mon478]

wel it said it supports 1080i when i bought it so it should be ok.

so for the price 360 for used hv10 or 275 for new Pan gs320 it would be better to go future proof and opt for the canon?

also, am i right in assuming i can record in a SD and HD. I will be editing it in iMovie HD and iDVD.

[redsox_mark]

Yes, the HV10 is more future proof as it is HD.
It can record in HD or SD, you can also record in HD but have the camcorder downconvert to SD (DV) for you. This is useful if you want to shoot HD but edit in SD.

[mon478]

i am now looking at an NTSC model new for £440 delivered

what are the possible issues that can arise from purchasing NTSC over PAL.

THNX

[redsox_mark]

This is a common question... putting aside warranty issues (a NTSC cam won't be a UK model), technically if you are using it in High Def mode only with a HDTV, there is no issue. (The only difference being the NTSC is 60i, the PAL is 50i, but a HDTV will support both).

The issues come when using in standard definition; you may not be able to record on a PAL set top DVD recorder, or connect the camcorder directly to a PAL SDTV. If creating DVDs you can work around this by converting in software, or also NTSC DVDs are generally playable on PAL DVD players with a PAL TV.

[mon478]

my paln is to record in HD - Transfer to mac - edit and burn to dvd - play on multi region player through PAL HD tv

so you are saying that its a bit more hassle. but software to be converted can be easily found to turn NTSC into PAL if necessary.

thank you for your replies.

[redsox_mark]

If you are making standard def DVDs, then of course you will lose the high definition. You can either create a NTSC DVD or convert to a PAL DVD.

If you are making high def discs (HD-DVD, Blu-ray, or "mini HD DVDs"), then the PAL/NTSC doesn't matter.

[senu]

Most editing software can transcode from PAL to NTSC and vice versa during the output stage.
There may be a slight drop in quality , this is software dependent.
At any rate, if your DVD player can play NTSC discs ( most can) , you may not need to output other than as recorded

For the actual Hi def files, the PAL/NTSC thing doesnt really come into play

[rhubarbe]

Originally Posted by mon478

i am now looking at an NTSC model new for £440 delivered

what are the possible issues that can arise from purchasing NTSC over PAL.

THNX

Well, I used this guy:

http://myworld.ebay.com/theelectronicsjungle

You have to win one in his auctions but that doesn't take too long. Mine was $545, plus $55 shipping and insurance. All up it was $600, or £295. No tax.

Sale was no hassle, delivery by USPS EMS and it arrived in three days brand new in box.

[sirlukas]

Do you guys think that Sony SR52 is a nono over Panasonic NV-GS320EB-S?

They are both pretty much same price?

Eternal issue, HDD or miniDV?

It is for my friend, I am not sure if he is keen to edit things on PC?

How long does it take to convert analogue miniDV signal to digital MPEG-2 on a PC?
Is it essential to have FireWire? Or are there any other options?
I really know nothing about video editing and camcorders.

Thanks

[senu]

Originally Posted by sirlukas

?

How long does it take to convert analogue miniDV signal to digital MPEG-2 on a PC?
Is it essential to have FireWire? Or are there any other options?

The MiniDV file is not analogue, It is better quality less compressed digital than mpeg2
The time it takes to encode to mpeg2 is dependent on, your PC, software and how much editing ( filters etc) you have applied to the DV AVI during editing. It ranges from 1/2 real time to 2-3X real time...most folk leave thier PCs to just do it overnight
Mpeg2 is a tad less easy to edit and does have PQ generational loss as you edit and reedit. Also you may still need to reeencode it to make a DVD
If you don't anticipate any editing it is very reasonable to capture as Mpeg2 and cut out the time used to encode.
However recent software have become very clever editing mpeg2

Firewire is the defacto way to capture the DV AVI on tape to a PC.. It is (in practice) essential if you have a Tape ( DV or HDV) camcorder and wish to retain that quality. There are USB2 devices which will give you much less dependable transfer or are costly "Pro" kit
I have one of the costly ones and it is OTT for simple capture where a £8-10) firewire card cable will do just fine
For HDD camcorders USB is just fine

I really know nothing about video editing and camcorders

.
Just ask. Everybody's got to start somewhere