Full HD Camcorder - The choices ?

[RobPhoboS]

Well I'm already down on buying a proper Sony PMW EX1, for my main serious work, yeah thats about 5k down the drain plus some for extras I need. However I was just reading my copy of this months Evo, and stumbled across a Panasonic advert for a nifty 3ccd full hd camera ! Wow I didn't know the consumer market had sped along sooo fast, seriously impressed !
Anyway, so Im looking at purchasing a smaller camera for personal work, quick CG experiements and my car films. Quality is one of the highest points for me and my work but also being able to expand (lens', larger batteries, connectivity to bullet camera's ect).
Now compaired to most people I usually require a lot more thus from this end of the market I'll probably need to decide over a couple of cameras, which is cool because I can go out and play with them
I was going to go and get a Sony HVR A1E, I used one last year (in an F40 ) and really liked it, was fantastic if the lighting conditions were good enough.
Not concerned about budget really (just not over 2.5k at the mo)

My usual needs are:

*1080p (rather progressive over interlaced as it saves me many hours of deinterlacing, I really mean hours and hours )
*Mic In
*Headphone out
*Hot shoe
*Wide angle lens or adapter (this is a must when I do some in-car bits)
*External vid input (useful for using bullet cameras)
*Manual control (focus, exp ect)
*Not horrendous low light conditions
*Night vision is fun !
*Hard drive or memory stick is perfect, but depending on quality tape is still ok for this camera.

Really REALLY appreciate any advice, its a rapidly evolving market.

[redsox_mark]

Well under your budget, but the Canon HG10 ticks almost all the boxes.... it has a 25p mode, mic in, HDD, etc. No interchangable lenses but you can add a wide angle adapter. The one thing it doesn't have is AV input. It's cousin, the HDV HV20 has AV-in, but it is tape. I don't think either has a IR night vision, that is usually only on Sony models.

Sony has progressive models (like the V1), they have HDD cams, but I don't think they currently have a progressive HDD cam.

[RobPhoboS]

Hi !
Yeah I was having a look at the Canon HG10, and yeah it ticked all the boxes bar what you've said, which is pretty impressive. You say I can add a wide angle adaptor ? Do you have a link to that ?
I think Sony have missed a trick here because I think their one would have ticked ALL of the boxes in this case.

Does anyone know if anything is coming out early in the new year perhaps ?

[redsox_mark]

The HG10 has a 43mm filter thread, you could use any wide angle adapter with that thread.

[RobPhoboS]

Originally Posted by redsox_mark

The HG10 has a 43mm filter thread, you could use any wide angle adapter with that thread.

Ah yes sorry I meant to originally say about having an extra lens or adapter on the front, I didn't mean to actually change the lens.

Just looking at the Sony HVR V1 (I presume that was what you meant).
It's actually a VERY capable camera, and with the added 60Gb HD I could go tapeless to ! (for another grand sure). I'm impressed and a little confused with the spec (trying to find the user manual pdf) because I dont understand if it does 1080p or if it meant it could do 1080i but have other modes in progressive.

Once again though, for shear value, I could get the canon, a few lens', tripod, some kind of steady shooting thingy, excellent battery ect ect and save a lot of money compaired to the 2.5k HVR V1.

I think Im going to take a look at a one tomorrow and have a look.

[RobPhoboS]

http://www.dvuser.co.uk/content.php?CID=141

Ah yes, after reading that I can confirm it does 1080p on tape, and on the HD if you get one of those two (or both at the same time ! ).

Damn, the choice is pretty hard now.
The V1 does nearly everything I want, and looks professional too (important when working with other people).
mmm


Also looking deeper into this HG10, http://www.dvinfo.net has dedicated forum sections just to the codec ! (AVCHD)
People seem to be complaining about bad quality from moving footage (pan, tracking ect) from various sources, I found a place with some footage to view as well. Haven't checked it out myself yet (will do soon but its time to get some shut eye).

[chrishull3]

Originally Posted by RobPhoboS

http://www.dvuser.co.uk/content.php?CID=141

Ah yes, after reading that I can confirm it does 1080p on tape, and on the HD if you get one of those two (or both at the same time ! ).

Damn, the choice is pretty hard now.
The V1 does nearly everything I want, and looks professional too (important when working with other people).
mmm


Also looking deeper into this HG10, http://www.dvinfo.net has dedicated forum sections just to the codec ! (AVCHD)
People seem to be complaining about bad quality from moving footage (pan, tracking ect) from various sources, I found a place with some footage to view as well. Haven't checked it out myself yet (will do soon but its time to get some shut eye).

that is some variation on your list the little canon and the v1 are different in worlds i have the fx-7 the fact that it cant wee i meen no P recording does not worry me but if i could afford the v1 over the h10 i know which i would get.

http://bentonvillemall.co.uk/acatalog/Sony-HVR-V1.html

[RobPhoboS]

Originally Posted by chrishull3

that is some variation on your list the little canon and the v1 are different in worlds i have the fx-7 the fact that it cant wee i meen no P recording does not worry me but if i could afford the v1 over the h10 i know which i would get.

http://bentonvillemall.co.uk/acatalog/Sony-HVR-V1.html

Yeah that place was already bookmarked

Well, right at this moment in time I would be happier with myself to spend less money, and yep they are worlds apart. I would definitely buy the V1, it will do everything I need, and is expandable as well as pro looking. Its the perfect choice, but since I am buying the PMW EX1, that bad boy is going to be doing 90% of the work.
Nobody has any camera's around the 1k mark do they, that would tick most of my needs?
Well I shall have a look at a few today if the shops are open.

[senu]

Originally Posted by RobPhoboS

Nobody has any camera's around the 1k mark do they, that would tick most of my needs?

I dont think so , that is even discounting the 1080p requirement

[redsox_mark]

Agreed... there is quite a gap between the good comsumer models (HV20, HG10, HC7, etc) and the pro or even semi-pro models (Sony V1, FX7, Z1, FX1, etc).

You are right the Sony V1 and the Canon HG10 are totally different beasts. And yes there are issues with AVCHD, especially with fast panning etc... though all in all the quality is still pretty good. But as would be expected with the price tag, the V1 and HG10 are in a different class.

There are also Canon HDV models which are rivals to the V1... I'm not so familiar with their pro range though; but that could give you even more choices if you don't mind tape...

[RobPhoboS]

Originally Posted by redsox_mark

Agreed... there is quite a gap between the good comsumer models (HV20, HG10, HC7, etc) and the pro or even semi-pro models (Sony V1, FX7, Z1, FX1, etc).

You are right the Sony V1 and the Canon HG10 are totally different beasts. And yes there are issues with AVCHD, especially with fast panning etc... though all in all the quality is still pretty good. But as would be expected with the price tag, the V1 and HG10 are in a different class.

There are also Canon HDV models which are rivals to the V1... I'm not so familiar with their pro range though; but that could give you even more choices if you don't mind tape...

You know, I think I probably could live with tape for now, especially if I can get 1080p on it, or hell just good progressive 720p is ok.
I shall venture over to the Canon site now and take a look.
EDIT:
The Canon XH A1 (£2,159.99), does 25f (which I think stands for film which is progressive) but not sure what resolutions just at this moment.

Hmm, bit of a conundrum really.
heh.

[senu]

Originally Posted by RobPhoboS

You know, I think I probably could live with tape for now, especially if I can get 1080p on it, or hell just good progressive 720p is ok.
I shall venture over to the Canon site now and take a look.

Hmm, bit of a conundrum really.
heh.

Good move..
..Im not sure Canon range will offer more in affordability or features but certainly with a wider budget your choice is far less limited

[redsox_mark]

Canon XH A1 is a 1080i HDV model. And yes, 25f is same as 25p.

[RobPhoboS]

Originally Posted by redsox_mark

Canon XH A1 is a 1080i HDV model. And yes, 25f is same as 25p.

Me being a bit dense here, but do you know what resolutions it does then in progressive shooting ?

I would buy the Sony HVR A1e but that single Cmos chip really doesn't fill me with confidence and no progressive mode
But seeing the Sony HDR-FX7E, that has a progressive shooting mode, and 3ccd... Could this be the camera Im looking for ? £1,530ish

[redsox_mark]

Canon XH A1 shoots the same resolution as in interlaced mode... 1920x1080 (though it may store it as 1440x1080, I'm not sure).

I don't belive the FX7 has a progressive mode, I believe only the V1 (the pro version of it) does.