[stevep94]

Hya, I'm getting married next year so we are looking to get a camcorder for the honeymoon and other holidays/events!
Can anyone point me in the right direction as to what to look for for a budget between £250 - £500??

I'm assuming Mini DV is still the way to go? (not sure about these hard drive ones in case it goes wrong/gets corrupted!?!)

ANY advice is appreciated - I know almost nothing about camcorders these days!!

Thanks...

SteveP

[darnun]

Just recently purchased a Sony DCR-SR32E, mainly to video my new born daughter.
Cost me £299 with a £30 cash back offer from Sony so only £269.

It is the Hard Drive style one but has given me no problems what so ever.
Has night vision, nice big tft screen, nice and small to handle and has a cradle that connects to your PC and you just pop the camcorder in to it and your PC picks it up and you copy your movies over.

Love it so far. The only thing I would say about it, it it doesn't take the best quality still pictures but I won't ever use it for that.

Darnun

[stevep94]

What sort of recording time do you get on a 30gb hard drive camcorder then??

SteveP

[darnun]

I suppose it depends on the quality at which you record but I have it set on the highest setting.
Thing is, I tend to record a few bits and then move them to my PC, mainly so I have them if anything ever did go wrong with the HD.
Last time I used it, I recorded over 2 hours and it hadn't really impacted the HD space.

The sony site says up to 21 hours recording time but I assume that's based on it's basic video setting. On the highest quality I would imagine you would get a good 10 hours or so.

http://www.sony.co.uk/view/ShowProdu...ard+Disk+Drive

[stevep94]

The only problem is the honeymoon next year is gonna be 2 and a half weeks so from what I've read, on a decent quality setting, 30gb gives you about 7 hours of recording!
Is there any major difference in quality between HDD and Mini DV??

SteveP

[redsox_mark]

£250 to £500 is a pretty big price range; that opens up many choices. As well as media type (tape, HDD etc) you also have standard definition vs. high definition.

At the bottom of your price range it needs to be standard definition. In this range, you’ll get better quality from a DV (tape) camcorder than a HDD model. I suggest the Panasonic GS320 or Sony HC96 (HC96 isn’t commonly available, but is at a good price from ebuyer). HDD models (like the SR32) aren’t bad, but the DV models perform better.

At the high end of your price range you can consider high definition. Recent thread had a bargin Panasonic SD1 (AVCHD format using memory cards) for £420. In the high def world, like with standard def, the tape based models generally give you the best quality though. Probably the best quality sub £1000 camcorder is the HDV (tape) Canon HV20, available online for around £550, just over your budget.

[redsox_mark]

Originally Posted by stevep94

Is there any major difference in quality between HDD and Mini DV??

As a format DV is technically "better" as it is less compressed... but that' s not really the issue. You can get good performance from HDD cams (which use MPEG2). The issue is more value for money. A £300 HDD cam will have a single small sensor and basic lens. The Panasonic GS320 (available under £300) has 3 CCDs and a better lens. The Sony HC96 has a single CCD, but it is twice the size of the Sony SR32 or other HDD cams in that range; also has a better lens.

At the upper end there is a similar but different comparison... HDV (tape) uses MPEG2, High def HDD cams use AVCHD/MPEG4... the HDV quality is generally a bit better.

[stevep94]

Wow!! Thanks for all the info!!!

I'm thinking high def might be a tad over the top for my particular uses!

So with that in mind I'm leaning towards a Mini DV so I'm not restricted to just the HDD space! I've had a look on e-buyer and found the Sony and Panasonic one's you mention - I think I prefer the look of the Panasonic but which is the "better" model in your opinion? ie. is the Sony worth the extra 50 notes???

Thanks for your continued help with this!!

SteveP

[redsox_mark]

The Panasonic GS320 and the Sony HC96 are very similar in terms of performance. The HC96 better in low light, the GS320 better colours in good light. The HC96 has AV input (very rare these days!), which means you can use the camcorder to convert any analogue input into DV format for editing. If you don't need that feature I'd go with the Panasonic and keep the change.

[stevep94]

Regards to the Panasonic (low light performance not the top of my list!) - any idea how long the standard battery will last for under normal use? And any tips on where to get a spare from??

My girlfriend has always had JVC stuff in the past - how do they compare in this sub £300 price range??

Thanks again....

SteveP

[redsox_mark]

Standard battery between 30 and 60 mins.
High Power battery (CGA-DU21) between 2 and 4 hours.

Genuine Panasonic batteries are expensive.. there are many cloned ones much cheaper. Having only purchased genuine Sony ones myself I can't recommend but others can.

As for JVC... they pretty much have abandoned DV in favour for HDD, their only current models are cheaper but not as good as the GS320.

[stevep94]

From what I've read today, it would appear that more and more companies are ditching the Mini DV route to go down the HDD route!! (including several problems with Windows Vista support for the PC software!! )

With this in mind, I'm wondering if HDD is the way I should be looking??

If not, which Mini DV model would YOU get??? (since you seem a very knowledgable chap!! )

Cheers...

SteveP

[brookie]

Originally Posted by redsox_mark

As for JVC... they pretty much have abandoned DV in favour for HDD, their only current models are cheaper but not as good as the GS320.

The Panasonic GS230 is 3CCD and mic in and cheaper than the GS320 (not mic in). Do you recommend that one? Must be cheaper for a reason!

Also Canon HV20 seems a great camera for the price (keeps on dropping too!) but if I am still doing SD work is it a mistake to buy it?

[rhubarbe]

Consumers are being sold the HDD is easier to use than MiniDV legend, so at the bottom end MiniDV may well disappear and be replaced by HDD, DVD or SDHC. At the top end, which is now HDV, I would expect tape to hold out much longer.

If my money: MiniDV - DCR-HC96 or NV-GS320.

You could get either the HDC-SD1 (SDHC) or the Canon HV10 (HDV) for your budget. So, my money went on an HV10 (I already have a HD SDHC cam for when I needs something very light).

[redsox_mark]

Yes, the trend is away from DV to HDD for standard def... for high def both HDV and HDD cams are being launched.

It depends how much you care about fashion. The reason for the move away from DV has nothing to do with quality, it is what consumers want. Often because they assume HDD must be better as it's new. If you want the best quality for £300 get a DV model. If you want to be seen with the latest, then get a HDD or flash memory model. The Panasonic S150 is a good flash memory cam, the H250 a good hybrid HDD/flash cam (with a good price available from simply gadgets).

I'd get the HC96 only because of the AV-input... if I didn't need that I'd get the GS320.

[redsox_mark]

Originally Posted by brookie

The Panasonic GS230 is 3CCD and mic in and cheaper than the GS320 (not mic in). Do you recommend that one? Must be cheaper for a reason!

Also Canon HV20 seems a great camera for the price (keeps on dropping too!) but if I am still doing SD work is it a mistake to buy it?

The GS320 has a better lens than the 230.... also the 320 has better image stabilisation. The electronic image stabilisation on the 230 can't be used at all if shooting in widescreen mode. But for the price the 230 is still good.

If you can stretch your budget to it, buying the HV20 is no mistake, even if you are working in SD today. You can shoot HD, edit and work with SD for now... save the tapes and in future re-release your masterpieces in HD. Eventually you'll get a HDTV... why not at least start shooting in HD now?

[evosy1978]

hello.

Ive been reading this thread and i too am going to buy a camcorder between 250 and 300.

I too was under the impression that hard drive was the way to go.

Could someone tell me what the difference in picture quality is between dv and hard drive and is their much difference in picture quality with all the different lens types.

Is their a hybrid camera dv/flash??

Thanks

[brookie]

Originally Posted by redsox_mark

The GS320 has a better lens than the 230.... also the 320 has better image stabilisation. The electronic image stabilisation on the 230 can't be used at all if shooting in widescreen mode. But for the price the 230 is still good.

If you can stretch your budget to it, buying the HV20 is no mistake, even if you are working in SD today. You can shoot HD, edit and work with SD for now... save the tapes and in future re-release your masterpieces in HD. Eventually you'll get a HDTV... why not at least start shooting in HD now?

Thanks. I took the plunge and ordered an HV20 based on opinions here and in www.hv20.com.

I still like the look of the gs230 and may buy one for b-roll footage and emergency use when it is end-of-line.

[redsox_mark]

It's not possible to give a simple answer to that question.... the quality of a camcorder is a result of many factors; the lens, the format, the sensor(s), the signal processing... but in that price range the quality of say the DV Panasonic GS320 (3 CCD) camcorder is noticably better than any of the low end HDD cams in that price range. But if you jump up to the Panasonic H250 or Sony SR190 (which cost a bit more), the quality is very close.

So you can get decent quality with HDD, it just costs a bit more.

I don't know of any hybrid DV and flash memory models. DV models will often have flash memory as well, but usually only for stills or low quality video clips.

[redsox_mark]

Originally Posted by brookie

Thanks. I took the plunge and ordered an HV20 based on opinions here and in www.hv20.com.

I still like the look of the gs230 and may buy one for b-roll footage and emergency use when it is end-of-line.

Well done... hope you will like it!

[brookie]

Originally Posted by evosy1978

hello.


I too was under the impression that hard drive was the way to go.

My reasons for sticking with tape are:

1. Ease of editing
2. Ready made backup

Downside for editing is that capturing is real time (i.e. minute capture for minute recorded) but unless it has to be on the 6 o'clock news it's no great hardship to go and do something else for a while

[evosy1978]

the reason for a camcorder with hdd is becus im going traveling for a while so i dont fancy carrying loads of tapes around with me.

when you say ease of editing with tapes, do you mean while your recording and if so how is this easier than editing with a hdd one.

redsox

Im now thinking about paying extra for a decent pq hdd camcorder. what in your opinions are the pros and cons in comparison with each other of the Panasonic H250 and Sony SR190.

thanks folks

[redsox_mark]

when you say ease of editing with tapes, do you mean while your recording and if so how is this easier than editing with a hdd one.

No, it is after you have the video on the PC and are editing. Both the tape based formats (DV and HDV) are less compressed than the HDD formats, so you need a less powerful PC to edit. With DV vs. Std Def HDD (MPEG2) this is not so much an issue, as there is good editing support for MPEG2, and any reasonably modern PC will handle it. In the High Def world it's more of an issue, as the HDD format (AVCHD) takes quite a powerful PC to edit or play.

what in your opinions are the pros and cons in comparison with each other of the Panasonic H250 and Sony SR190

In terms of video quality they are similar.... the classic battle between 3 small CCDs (H250) and one large CMOS (SR190)... the SR190 should be a bit better in low light; the H250 more accurate colours. H250 can also record to flash memory (SD) card, and is a bit cheaper. SR190 has a larger HDD (40 vs 30), and takes better stills. I'd give the edge to the H250.

[evosy1978]

thanks so far for the advice and info.

would you agree that some cons of dv are the cost of the dvs themselves and storage of them if you are going to be doing lots and lots of filming. ( can you re-record over a dv once you have put the film onto computer)??

Also going back to the Panasonic H250 and Sony SR190. Which has the best microphone or gives the best sound quality, can they have external mics.

Do you get the normal battery with these models as standard or could you pay extra and get a longer lasting battery??

Thanks in advance.

[brookie]

Originally Posted by evosy1978

would you agree that some cons of dv are the cost of the dvs themselves and storage of them if you are going to be doing lots and lots of filming. ( can you re-record over a dv once you have put the film onto computer)??

Yes, the tapes are reusable...though I have rarely reused. For me they are a more convenient storage medium than disk.

Although disk space is cheap I have had drives fail, and continually moving material from disk to disk as I upgrade is a pain.

[rhubarbe]

MiniDV Sony Premium tapes on Amazon are only about a quid each. At that price it's not necessary to reuse them.

You get the normal battery and I doubt you'll get an option to upgrade a battery. You have to buy the bigger one as an accessory. Silly I know, because then you don't need the one that came with the cam, but that's the way of the world.

[redsox_mark]

Originally Posted by evosy1978

would you agree that some cons of dv are the cost of the dvs themselves and storage of them if you are going to be doing lots and lots of filming. ( can you re-record over a dv once you have put the film onto computer)??

No, not really, as you need to backup your videos somehow, and tape is a reliable and fairly cheap media.

Also going back to the Panasonic H250 and Sony SR190. Which has the best microphone or gives the best sound quality, can they have external mics.

Neither has an external mic jack. The Sony does have the Sony "AIS" accessory shoe, which can fit a limited number of (Sony) external mics.

Do you get the normal battery with these models as standard or could you pay extra and get a longer lasting battery??

Every camcorder I've seen comes with a low end battery, you can buy longer lasting ones.

[evosy1978]

damn it - now im even more undecided. I didnt relise dv were so cheap and that they could be re-used.

Are you allowed to go into internet cafe and connect your camcorder up and then maybe email the footage to another email ( just thinking of when we go travelling.) I maybe been swayed towards dv.

[senu]

Originally Posted by evosy1978

damn it - now im even more undecided. I didnt relise dv were so cheap and that they could be re-used.

Are you allowed to go into internet cafe and connect your camcorder up and then maybe email the footage to another email ( just thinking of when we go travelling.) I maybe been swayed towards dv.

Whether you use a HDD or DV camcorder I doubt that they would let you hook up your camcorder .
As for tapes unless you never need the footage again the best store for your footage is the tape itself.. that is why reusing then isn't that popular , not because it is impossible
Im not sure how much you'll capture in a holiday but I doubt that even 5 tapes will take up that much space..compared to a HDD. Anyway for a holiday you should be thinking more of a longer life battery TBH

[redsox_mark]

Emailing video files is not practical due to their large size. DV and HDV are 13 GB per hour. AVCHD is about 6 GB per hour (depends on the quality setting/bitrate). Even standard def mpeg (e.g. from H250) is nearly 5 GB per hour.