Sony HC96 / HC94

[bbqforce10]

Hi
Please excuse my ignorance as I'm a newbie!

I'm planning to buy a good quality mini dv camcorder and am very interested in the Sony HC96 as mentioned on here, available on ebuyer for £323.
Ebuyer also have the Sony HC94, for £229. Looking at the specifications, the HC94 looks very similar and is tempting at nearly £100 less! Can anyone please advise me as to the main differences in the models?
Is the HC94 a good camcorder?
My budget is pretty tight and the £100 saving compared to the HC96 is very tempting!

I plan to use the camera to do quite a bit of indoor filming of interiors,
I am also considering the Panasonic GS320, does anyone know which camera has the widest angle lens? Can you just look at the focal lengths, or does the effective field of view vary due to sensor size (as with digi slrs)?
Also can anyone recommend wide angle lense attachments that would be suitable?

Thanks

Adam

[redsox_mark]

Wow.
The HC94 is exactly the same as the HC96 in terms of quality. The only difference is the 94 does not have either DV or AV input. That's an amazing bargin.

[bbqforce10]

Thanks for the reply Mark.

So without the DV input I will not be able record edited footage from my pc back to DV tape, but I guess I will be able to backup material to DVD using my PCs DVD writer? Any real downsides to this?

Think I'm off to ebuyer to get my new toy!

Thanks

Adam

[redsox_mark]

Originally Posted by bbqforce10

Hi
I plan to use the camera to do quite a bit of indoor filming of interiors,
I am also considering the Panasonic GS320, does anyone know which camera has the widest angle lens? Can you just look at the focal lengths, or does the effective field of view vary due to sensor size (as with digi slrs)?
Also can anyone recommend wide angle lense attachments that would be suitable?

As you have guessed, the effective field of view depends on the sensor size as well as the lens (and the Sony sensor is twice the size). But to help you the specs usually show the "effective focal length" when converted to 35mm terms, so you can compare apples with apples. Using this method the HC94/96 is 4:3 Mode ; 45-450 / 16:9 Mode ; 42.8-495. The GS320 is 46.1 - 461 mm (4:3)/47.1 - 471mm (16:9). (The Sony is slightly wider angle).

You can buy wide angle adapters; e.g Sony sell their own... you can go third party as well. I've not bought one so can't recommend a specific one.

[redsox_mark]

Originally Posted by bbqforce10

So without the DV input I will not be able record edited footage from my pc back to DV tape, but I guess I will be able to backup material to DVD using my PCs DVD writer? Any real downsides to this?

Correct. In the days before DVD, DV-in was pretty much essential for editing, otherwise how would you save your edits? Today you'll be converting to DVD video format anyway. You may still want to save a copy of your edited video in it's original (less compressed) format, and DV-in is good for this as 1) It will hold 1 hour of video, and 2) tape is arguably a more reliable long term media than DVD. If you use DVD to archive the video in DV format you can only fit about 20 minutes on a single layer DVD. You could also save the edited DV-avi files on HDD (or multiple HDDs or backup).

I always prefer to have DV in, but if the budget is tight I'd rather go for the excellent quality at a good price which is what the HC94 gives you.

[JamieBee]

Originally Posted by redsox_mark

Correct. In the days before DVD, DV-in was pretty much essential for editing, otherwise how would you save your edits? Today you'll be converting to DVD video format anyway. You may still want to save a copy of your edited video in it's original (less compressed) format, and DV-in is good for this as 1) It will hold 1 hour of video, and 2) tape is arguably a more reliable long term media than DVD. If you use DVD to archive the video in DV format you can only fit about 20 minutes on a single layer DVD. You could also save the edited DV-avi files on HDD (or multiple HDDs or backup).

I always prefer to have DV in, but if the budget is tight I'd rather go for the excellent quality at a good price which is what the HC94 gives you.

I was just about to buy the HC96 when I saw this thread. I will be using the camcorder for general family filming (baby due in 2 months - you put comments on my thread a bit further down the page mark). I am just trying to understand the difference between the 2 models and which one is best for me.

Is leaving footage on dv tapes rather than burning to dvd better then ? Better pic quality ? You can only fit 20 mins of footage on a standard 4.7gb dvd ? Are you saying the dv and av inputs are only needed if you are going to transfer your dv footage to dvd ?

[redsox_mark]

Originally Posted by JamieBee

Is leaving footage on dv tapes rather than burning to dvd better then ? Better pic quality ? You can only fit 20 mins of footage on a standard 4.7gb dvd ? Are you saying the dv and av inputs are only needed if you are going to transfer your dv footage to dvd ?

Start with your last question first. No, you don't need DV or AV inputs to create a DVD. You only need output (which all camcorders have); with this you can output to a PC (or DVD recorder) to create a DVD.

Here is the story: DV is much less compressed than MPEG2 (which is used for DVD video); so in theory that means higher quality. The reality is that if you create a DVD from DV footage (using either decent software or a decent DVD recorder) you should see no visible loss of quality (as long as you don't try to fit too much on a single disc). You can fit 1 hour of MPEG2 video for DVD on a single layer disc at best quality; 2 hours at good/standard quality.

So.. you shoot DV, you edit DV, you create a DVD. Don't need DV/AV in for any of that.

You need DV-in only if you want to save your edited video back out to DV tape. Why would you want to do this? The answer is not for everyday playback (you will play your DVD for that). It is for 2 reasons:

1. Tape is (I believe) more reliable for long term archive (or if nothing else gives you another backup if your DVDs fail).

2. If you ever want to make further edits to your already edited movie, it is best to use DV for that. A single "generation" conversion from DV to MPEG2/DVD creates loss, but you should not be able to see it. But if you later edit that again (and again), with MPEG2 you will start to see noticably quality loss. With DV, you can edit many generations with no visible loss.
Now there are other ways of saving the edited DV file than tape - you can also save these to a data DVD, but this is when you'll only fit 20 mins per disc. These discs you can not play on a DVD player but can be used for future editing.

Hope that makes sense.

[JamieBee]

Originally Posted by redsox_mark

Start with your last question first. No, you don't need DV or AV inputs to create a DVD. You only need output (which all camcorders have); with this you can output to a PC (or DVD recorder) to create a DVD.

Here is the story: DV is much less compressed than MPEG2 (which is used for DVD video); so in theory that means higher quality. The reality is that if you create a DVD from DV footage (using either decent software or a decent DVD recorder) you should see no visible loss of quality (as long as you don't try to fit too much on a single disc). You can fit 1 hour of MPEG2 video for DVD on a single layer disc at best quality; 2 hours at good/standard quality.

So.. you shoot DV, you edit DV, you create a DVD. Don't need DV/AV in for any of that.

You need DV-in only if you want to save your edited video back out to DV tape. Why would you want to do this? The answer is not for everyday playback (you will play your DVD for that). It is for 2 reasons:

1. Tape is (I believe) more reliable for long term archive (or if nothing else gives you another backup if your DVDs fail).

2. If you ever want to make further edits to your already edited movie, it is best to use DV for that. A single "generation" conversion from DV to MPEG2/DVD creates loss, but you should not be able to see it. But if you later edit that again (and again), with MPEG2 you will start to see noticably quality loss. With DV, you can edit many generations with no visible loss.
Now there are other ways of saving the edited DV file than tape - you can also save these to a data DVD, but this is when you'll only fit 20 mins per disc. These discs you can not play on a DVD player but can be used for future editing.

Hope that makes sense.

Thank you Mark - that explains it a bit more. I doubt I will have any need to edit an edited movie. Once I am happy with what is on the DV I will either leave it and use a new DV or just put it on a DVD and erase it. By the way, by reusing DVs by recording, erasing and then recording again - does the quality drop ?

http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/produ...oductId=110409

I have posted a link here comparing the 2 machines. Is there anything else I need to be aware of (I only understand half of it) i.e. the HC94 has no warranty (surely everything gets 1 yr), no scart adaptor or lens cap on the 94, no auto focus on the 94 and a few other bits here and there which I do not know if correct on site and/or anything to worry about.

[bbqforce10]

Hi Jamie

I've just spoken to ebuyer re the HC94....it is brand new and with 12 months warranty. I think the details are just not filled in properly when you view its spec in comparison mode on the site.

It has autofocus, and I am assuming it has a lens cap (forgot to ask...but it must do)!

Hope this helps.

I'm ordering one now!

Adam

[JamieBee]

Originally Posted by bbqforce10

Hi Jamie

I've just spoken to ebuyer re the HC94....it is brand new and with 12 months warranty. I think the details are just not filled in properly when you view its spec in comparison mode on the site.

It has autofocus, and I am assuming it has a lens cap (forgot to ask...but it must do)!

Hope this helps.

I'm ordering one now!

Adam

Cheers Adam. Let me know how many are left - I will order mine tonight prob.

[bbqforce10]

7 left now

[redsox_mark]

Originally Posted by bbqforce10

Hi Jamie

I've just spoken to ebuyer re the HC94....it is brand new and with 12 months warranty. I think the details are just not filled in properly when you view its spec in comparison mode on the site.

It has autofocus, and I am assuming it has a lens cap (forgot to ask...but it must do)!

Hope this helps.

I'm ordering one now!

Adam

Yes their detauls must have been wrong. The HC94 has an automatic lens cover which opens/closes (so actually doesn't have a lens "cap"). And yes, autofocus...

You can look at the manual here
http://www.sonydigital-link.com/DIME...en&m=DCR-HC94E