Firstly hello all

Secondly, I have been given the task of sourcing a camcorder for my company - for next THURSDAY .

I haven't used one since 2001 and I am sure they have moved on since then and no longer require Mini Dvs and are not as heavy etc etc... but am a total noob as to what is on the market at the moment.

I don't really have a budget, but personally I would assume something decent could be purchased for £500 - £700?

Questions:

1) Can you get Camcorders that burn to dvd? Or do they all now have a HDD and you download it to your computer to burn?

2) What sort of battery is provided? Would I need to buy another one?

3) Are they easy to download onto any PC? Is it straightforward?!

Many thanks in advance! PS sorry for asking so many silly questions - I am a girl after all!

WK x

[senu]

Originally Posted by Wildkat

Firstly hello all

Secondly, I have been given the task of sourcing a camcorder for my company - for next THURSDAY .

I haven't used one since 2001 and I am sure they have moved on since then and no longer require Mini Dvs and are not as heavy etc etc... but am a total noob as to what is on the market at the moment.

Wrong they still use MiniDVs even for High definition but yes.. they are much smaller now

I don't really have a budget, but personally I would assume something decent could be purchased for £500 - £700?

Should be enough but if its for Thursday you can get keen prices only online .. so youve got to move fast

Questions:

1) Can you get Camcorders that burn to dvd? Or do they all now have a HDD and you download it to your computer to burn?

Yes you can get camcorders that
Burn direct to DVD
Record to HDD
Record to Flash card
Still record to MiniDV tape: You need to remember that the video that is recorded to tape is digital and is in no way inferior to the newer formats. If anything Quality is at least as good to better.
I would suggest that direct to DVD sounds convenient but has its own gremlins. For a company I would avoid. If there is at all any chance of editing theMiniDV models offer the best bang for buck+ ease of editing
For Easier , quicker transfer to PC an SD HDD model is worth looking at.

All of these have models which can record either Standard definition or Hi Definition video. All Hi definition models can record standard definition . Thee converse is not true

2) What sort of battery is provided? Would I need to buy another one?

Mostly Lithium Ion.. The one that come with the camcorders tend to not last very long.. A spare longer lasting battery is reccomended

3) Are they easy to download onto any PC? Is it straightforward?!

Yes.. but the tape models do it in real time. Once on the PC there is no difference.
For the HDD and card based (Hi Def models) using them on the PC would need more powerful PCs and editing would need specific software too. and output options are limited

Many thanks in advance! PS sorry for asking so many silly questions - I am a girl after all!

Im not sure you can defend that.. Last time I checked "girls" were getting PhDs!

Ha ha... thanks for your help Senu

Looks like I will be looking at HDD models then and requiring an upgrade to my computer - are there any around at the moment that you would suggest? So far looking at threads on here this one looks suitable: Sony HDR-SR5E 40GB

Originally Posted by senu

Im not sure you can defend that.. Last time I checked "girls" were getting PhDs!

ha ha... I have to admit - I'm not your typical blonde bimbo... hence being on here I guess!

Thanks again!

WK x

[senu]

Im not hot on model nos: Redox_Mark is is our "guru" there but the SR5 is an HDD high definition Camcorder.
If High def is not currently a need I would buy a much better Standard def model

AVCHD editing is emerging with need for a few specific software titles and a powerful PC
Apparently some have found the need to live with AF "hunting"

Panasonic and Canon make reasonably priced models too

[redsox_mark]

SR5 is a good model in that price range if you want HDD. Don't rule out HDV (tape) models though like the Sony HC5/HC7, or the Canon HV10/HV20.

It is common on High Def cams that the auto focus is slower in low light. There is a recent thread where someone is looking to sell their SR5 for that reason... maybe you can do a deal.

[rhubarbe]

This is the HDR-SR5 sale thread:

http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=625959

He's not giving it away though, is he?

Thanks for your help guys... I have also been recommended Canon Hv20 as well.

It all seems very complicated! The plus side is that its not my money that I am spending which is the best thing!

Cheers again!

WK x

[senu]

What seems complicated
If you refer to the cameras .. they can be used in very simple mode
If you refer to the formats thier Pros and Cons.. You need not worry about what you dont want but for quality, VFM tape is hard to beat
It isnt as convenient to transfer because it happens in real time and the transfered files (DV AVI) need to be encoded to a DVD friendly format but all this is easily learnt and most of it can be automated by using the right software

I mean the whole downloading/editing thing is going to be complicated...

I haven't done it for a while thats all!

I think my boss wants to get a HDD camcorder without any tapes...my IT department may not be so hot about the new purchase at all.... oh well!

WK x

[rhubarbe]

If your boss wants an HDD cam then I should get an HDD cam. They are very easy to use.

Recommend:

Sony HDR-SR7 60GB HDD.

Would have recommended: Canon HG10 but it won't be available before Thursday.

[senu]

Originally Posted by Wildkat

I mean the whole downloading/editing thing is going to be complicated...

Not quite but I understand your misgivings

I haven't done it for a while thats all!

Amazing how easy the software is to learn.. and there is always this forum to clear any queries

I think my boss wants to get a HDD camcorder without any tapes...

Fair enough , as long as its not because tape is beng discounted as yesterdays news.. They are great in use, but so are the tapes models.. All can be used in point and shoot mode!

my IT department may not be so hot about the new purchase at all.... oh well!

WK x

If you dont tell them .. we wont..!

Originally Posted by senu

Amazing how easy the software is to learn.. and there is always this forum to clear any queries

Am glad I am a member now

Originally Posted by senu

Fair enough , as long as its not because tape is beng discounted as yesterdays news.. They are great in use, but so are the tapes models..

Many reasons... cost, ease (?!), environmentally friendly... in all fairness I would prefer to use tape as thats what I know... but I can guarrantee her and IT will prefer HDD.

Originally Posted by senu

If you dont tell them .. we wont..!

Unfortunately if I need to run the editing software I will more than definitely need an upgrade... I already have all of the Adobe CS programs running as well :/

Plus they will probably want a go... boys and their toys eh?

WK x

[chrishull3]

a lot of people are starting to prefer avchd, this user prefers hdr-cx7 to tape cam.chris



http://www.sonyhdvinfo.com/showthread.php?t=10511

[rhubarbe]

I agree. I can't see the point of lumping round a fragile HDD, but the lady's boss wants a HDD cam.

I am not sure that I believe the CX6/7 is better than the HC7, I have seen footage from both and don't like the way the CX6/7 blows bluey greens up.
There are two clips about called "ardillas", and there is some of a cycle race if you do a hunt for it. Colour doesn't look right to me on any of them.

Canon colour looks to me like you are just watching real life.

Just my 2p.

[mw01908]

No expert but my 2p as I was thinking of a replacement myself:

DVD ones are out because its a pain to edit MPEG 2 DVD video.

HDD is out because you have to delete or transfer it off the camera when it fills up, so that storage may as well be a DV tape anyway. Also HDD fragments and I think a HDD is too fragile to be carrying around. Don't knock the camera, and if you drop it you are definately buggered.

Not sure about flash card, don't know much about them but I would guess that the bitrates must be low to fit in much video into such a small space.

That leaves good old DV tape, easy to store, instant backups, never run out of hard drive space and easy to edit afterwards.

[redsox_mark]

DVD ones are out because its a pain to edit MPEG 2 DVD video.

I'm no fan of DVD cams... but to clarify a few things. In this thread we have been mainly discussing High Def cams... with High Def the DVD, HDD, and flash memory cams all use MPEG4; the tape based cams use MPEG2. So you are editing compressed video regardless.

When talking about standard definition, it is true that DVD cams use MPEG2 (as do HDD and flash memory ones). With today's PCs and software this isn't really a "pain" anymore, though I agree DV is a more ideal format for editing.

HDD is out because you have to delete or transfer it off the camera when it fills up, so that storage may as well be a DV tape anyway. Also HDD fragments and I think a HDD is too fragile to be carrying around. Don't knock the camera, and if you drop it you are definately buggered.

I agree archiving is an advantage of tape, but I would not rule HDD out because of it; you just need to consider your archive strategy. I've not seen any evidence of HDD cams being particularly fragile. They all have a safety feature to shut off the HDD if you drop the cam.

Not sure about flash card, don't know much about them but I would guess that the bitrates must be low to fit in much video into such a small space.

For High Def, they tend to use the same bitrate and compression (AVCHD/MPEG4) as HDD models. For Standard Def, they use MPEG2.

[mw01908]

Thanks for clarifying thats interesting to know. Is MPEG 4 easy to edit or still in its infancy?

[senu]

Originally Posted by mw01908

Thanks for clarifying thats interesting to know. Is MPEG 4 easy to edit or still in its infancy?

Mpeg4 has many flavours.
Many current software can accept it as input but given how compressed it is in the first place : I can only imagine the output would be at best as good as the original.. realistically probably worse..

H.264 ( AVCHD) is another variety.. . Ill be pedantic and say it is emerging from infancy to being a toddler
With PC you can edit it but not export back to AVCHD. Youll need a decent spec PC to play, and edit and only a handful of software do but that will change as time goes on. Imovie 08 on the mac seems unique in the abiloty to export edited AVCHD as AVCHD
My feeling is that Mpeg4 in all its guises (including AVCHD) was not really originally developed to be edited..more to be an end product for viewing

[Busterdino]

Hi

I've also been looking around for an HDD camcorder. I've seen the Sony High Definition Easy Handycam HDR-SR1 Camcorder on sale - I guess it's an older model now, but is it any good, and would £500 be a good price for it?

Put differently, in that budget, is there a better option? Is it worth paying the extra for the HDR-SR5E 40GB High Definition Camcorder? I don't think the extra 10GB is going to be an issue for me (famous last words!), and the SR1 used to sell for £1000. Is that because prices have dropped or is it a better camcorder?

Thanks

[redsox_mark]

Prices have dropped. In terms of video quality the SR1 and SR5 are similar... but the SR1 is much better in terms of features (mic input, headphone input, nice manual controls). If you want a HD-HDD cam, I don't think you can do better for £500.