Hi
I recently bought a bullet cam which I intend to sue on my race car.
Unfortunately my camcorder does not have the requisite AV input to be able to connect it.
Does anyone know of a reasonably priced Camcorder, preferably Hard Drive which has av input?
Thanks
Richard

[redsox_mark]

No. AV-input has become very rare. I don't know of any HDD models which have it.
Even for DV tape I don't know of any current models; the Sony HC96 you can still get and it has it.
Canon HV10 and HV20 HDV cams do too.

[rhubarbe]

You could go and ask the oracle:

http://www.dogcamsport.co.uk/avcamcorders.htm

List of cams that take av-in with the proviso that you double-check by downloading the manual for whatever cam takes your fancy before you buy one. The list is comprehensive but includes many cams that are discontinued.

[richard plumb]

I'm going to sell my Sony trv25 soon. Specifically got that because of av in and also realtime conversion from av in to dv out. So you can record to tape or use it as a capture device connected to the pc.

Didn't realise this feature had become rare. I suppose its just penny pinching

How about something like an archos? They can record from av cables with a little adapter. Or you can buy a special archos helmet cam

[senu]

Even with model nos..it is possible that the EU specific models will still not have AV in
It is partly penny pinching but more of the manufacturers taking advantage of the rather silly EU law which classifies Camcorders with AV in as video recorders and as such puts a tax levy to protect EU manufacturers.
Given the globalisation of manufacturing ( China ect) it is an obsolete and poorly thought out law which has persisted
It is easier to understand why HDD models dont have it though.. most settop DVD recorders ( which record in mpeg2 albeit to thier HDD or DVD) have an AV in.
They are however not portable devices.. it may be that one of the Archos types devices may be the thing

[rhubarbe]

I thought that this was the major reason that Euro cams are given different model numbers?

OTOH, there may be another reason:

HDR-CX6 - Euro PAL
HDR-CX7 - US, Japan, Korea NTSC
HDR-CX7E - Rest of the world PAL

And I don't think that this cam has av-in. Anybody come up with a reason for this nonsense?

[senu]

Originally Posted by rhubarbe

And I don't think that this cam has av-in. Anybody come up with a reason for this nonsense?

Penny Pinching by the manufacturers . And a perception ( or determination by them) that anyone with more than "point and shoot" video aspirations should be prepared to spend a lot more then £1000+

The manufacturers are determined not to put in features they feel only a handful of people want.. like OIS ,ext mic input,manual focus, exposure ,white balance, audio volume control, AV-in ect..
The other feeling IMHO is that these features should be reserved for High end Prosumer,, Semi Pro or Pro models.
The likes of Canons MX2 and Sony's VX2100 ( or excellent TRV950) are a dying breed ( sadly)
One of the things I perceive is that with the possible exception of the HV20,(and Sony HC7( up to a point)) Very few MiniDV models feature more than basic features that a serious videographer would find useful, they do have features some of which are "gimmicks"

None of the AVCHD models do ( regardless of brand) and that seems to send the message that they are not intended for any "serious" work.
This is a bit of a confusing message for what is meant to be The future format to chase tape, (m2t and DV AVI) into oblivion
It does make you wonder what budding video or media students or newly qualified graduates can work with without getting a hefty loan to get semi-pro models

[rhubarbe]

Well, maybe, but I have read the manuals for the HDR-CX6/CX7/CX7E and AFAIAC and aside form obvious differences like PAL/NTSC there appears to be no difference in these models.

I suppose that if models a, b and c all have "semi-pro" features missing, and that model d which does have them is going to cost more to produce and will thus be sold at a higher price, then the manufacturers would not consider model d to be a competitor to a, b and c.

Good example is the GZ-HD7. Starts out very expensive but the market doesn't like the non-functional OIS, so the street price has to hit the floor before they'll move out of stores.

[senu]

Originally Posted by rhubarbe

Well, maybe, but I have read the manuals for the HDR-CX6/CX7/CX7E and AFAIAC and aside form obvious differences like PAL/NTSC there appears to be no difference in these models.

You butress my point, Ill be happier when or If camcorders which are "affordable" are not so because they are feature lean

I suppose that if models a, b and c all have "semi-pro" features missing, and that model d which does have them is going to cost more to produce and will thus be sold at a higher price, then the manufacturers would not consider model d to be a competitor to a, b and c.

True but until lately there have always been different levels of camcorder to appeal to different aspirations.
It seems fairly clear that the gap between consumer camcorders ( even the costlier ones) and "Prosumer and Semi pro ones is so wide that the next level up from the ones you've quoted above are at least £1500+.. Some are even the "Entry level" Semi Pro models costing even more

Good example is the GZ-HD7. Starts out very expensive but the market doesn't like the non-functional OIS, so the street price has to hit the floor before they'll move out of stores.

That was a missed opportunity by JVC to make a very well sorted camcorder at a reasonable cost.
Sonys HDV models after the HC1 have made strides in PQ and low light abilities but have also lost a lost of useful "semi pro " functions it has
I feel that quality sells, and keeps its Price.
Note that the likes of the Sony FX1, VX2100 or Canon MX2 ( not to mention XL 1 and 2) are simply holding their price, many years on

[GaryB]

Originally Posted by rhubarbe

And I don't think that this cam has av-in. Anybody come up with a reason for this nonsense?

It's actually not penny pinching, It's because camcorders with video inputs attract a higher level of import duty. It would hike the price for something that relatively few users would ever use.

[felix2]

Sorry we're veering away from the original question a bit, but have you seen Sony's announcement on the launch of the HD1000?

http://news.sel.sony.com/en/press_ro...ase/31159.html

By all accounts, despite being in their "pro" range, it looks like the HC7 stuck into a bigger box (shoulder mounted), potentially with a better lens, and with the (assignable) focus ring stuck back on. Oh, and uses Sony's more popular old batteries, not the ludicrously expensive ones that you have to use on the HC7!! Anticipated RRP "less than $1900". Is it worth the extra £ from the HC7 (...and where does it sit with the A1)? Just a shame they stripped the HC7 (from the HC1) of its focus ring and focus assist feature. And AV in would've been nice! Ho hum. I'm not holding out for an HC9 to be any improvement feature-wise though - or possibly even to exist at all!

[senu]

Originally Posted by GaryB

It's actually not penny pinching, It's because camcorders with video inputs attract a higher level of import duty. It would hike the price for something that relatively few users would ever use.

See post 6.. for the cost of these camcorders and the fact that the Canon HV10 and 20 can implement AV-in without any greater boost to cost, Im not convinced its not Penny pinching

However, there are other features which might be used ( if they were present ) which are also omitted in newer camcorders

[GaryB]

Originally Posted by senu

See post 6.. for the cost of these camcorders and the fact that the Canon HV10 and 20 can implement it AV-in without any greater boost to cost, Im not convinced its not Penny pinching

The difference isn't massive, something like 5-6% IIRC, but the fact is that camcorder market is extremely price sensitive these days. The difference in sales between a £199 vs £219 or £299 vs £319 price point can be massive and with margins almost non-existent, it's just not worth adding it on regular models where just a few percent of buyers will ever use it.

[rhubarbe]

Quite a few manual controls on my SDR-S150: white balance, gain, headphone jack. No accessory shoe, though.

On another subject but not worth starting another thread for: does anybody know what sort of plug they use in Irish Republic? UK or Euro? Don't want to take the wrong one.

[rhubarbe]

It seems that enthusiasm got the better of me tonight. I just bought lurcher's HDR-HC1E for £400 over on a trading thread. Bargain, or what?

[senu]

Lovely camcorder
but as per the topic of this thread
1) No AV-in
2) Component out .. not HDMI
3)Low light performance possibly not as good as the newer HC7/HV10/HV20 series but if you owned one you wouldn't trade up to these models because of that

However for £400 you could do a lot worse
.
You get many manual controls ( although some are buried deep in the menus/ Submenus!) .. youll have to find them
See
http://www.handsonhdv.com/PRODUCT_HC1.html
or another available
Here

Its SD and HDV perfomance are great, and If this one has excessive motor noise pickup.. you are jinxed!

[rhubarbe]

Hehe.

No av-in? Oh well, never mind. Lack of HDMI doesn't worry me really as I would transfer all files to my HTPC.

I plan to use this one for planned event filming. Like if I go to a wedding. Like if anybody'll have me at a wedding.

[redsox_mark]

Congrats on the HC1.... I love mine...

[rhubarbe]

Ah yes, I thought I read you have one. What tapes? I have quite a lot of Sony Premium. Are they any good for the HC1?

[redsox_mark]

Yes, Sony Premium works fine.

[rhubarbe]

Excellent!

[rhubarbe]

I've just downloaded and read the manual. Now, I think I can use this as an AV deck to archive the footage from another camcorder. But, tell me, can I only transfer HDV m2t or DV avi back to the HC1?

OK, I am not phrasing this very well.

If I have AVCHD on a PC, or mpeg2 on a PC (from other camcorders) how do I reformat this so that I can archive my edited footage back to the HC1?

[redsox_mark]

Correct, you can only transfer HDV m2t or DV avi back to the HC1.

You could take AVCHD footage, convert it to HDV in your editor, and output that to tape on the HC1 if you want.

[rhubarbe]

Thatnks. Will it degrade it going from AVCHD to HDV?

[senu]

I think not but that is software dependent. At any rate AVCHD when edited would end up as HDV or other format so I imagine any "degrading" would be academic

As for Mpeg2 from elsewhere to return to HC 1: If it is HD mpeg2 then you'll need to turn it into m2t If SD ,DV AVI

[rhubarbe]

Canopus Procoder2? I have on one of the PCs at work. Would that do it OK?

[senu]

It will do just fine for most formats Even Procoder Express is great but Im not sure it can "see" AVCHD though
Otherwise For the money Im yet to see a better Video conversion software
Saying that, the built in converters with Sony Vegas 7 do an excellent Job
Sony Vegas 7 does see AVCHD but the 7.0e was only based around Sony camcorders

In order to output from AVCHD youll need Sony Vegas Ver 8, Ver 8 Movie Studio Platinum, Pinnacle studio 11Plus or UleadVS 11 plus

[redsox_mark]

Originally Posted by rhubarbe

Thatnks. Will it degrade it going from AVCHD to HDV?

In theory recompressing any compressed format can degrade quality, but doing a single generation from AVCHD to HDV should not cause any visable loss.

[chrishull3]

rhubarb as i have probobly told you i have a hc-1 and fx-7.the hc-1 is a great cam,i argued with someone on another site when i said my hc-1 picture wise was as good as the fx-7[he rubbished the hc-1]where the fx-7 wins is its a more hands on friendly and has a 20x lens.the hdmi picture from the fx-7 is the same as from coponent so there is no loss there.i think the hc-1 is a solid well made camcorder.good filming chris

[greencroft]

Originally Posted by richardfearns

Hi
I recently bought a bullet cam which I intend to sue on my race car.
Unfortunately my camcorder does not have the requisite AV input to be able to connect it.
Does anyone know of a reasonably priced Camcorder, preferably Hard Drive which has av input?
Thanks
Richard

Richard

I use a bullet cam in my rally car attached to a Canon MV550i camcorder which has the requisite AV-in and also a LANC socket which is for a wired remote control. I am not sure if these camcorders are still available from Canon dealers but you may get one secondhand.

Simon.