[Maninblack]

I know there is a difference in Tape and hard disc, downloading and editing with these cameras, but are the electronics, lens low light etc basically the same or not? I am too ignorant to tell when it comes to cam corders.
Also Im worried about tape head longevity although maybe the quality and storage has some advantages.
Any comments on the two models?

[rhubarbe]

Buying either of those models is a major investment so I thnk it would be worthwhile your reading the reviews:

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content...view-29388.htm

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content...r-Features.htm

CCI (Camcorderinfo) is generally reckoned to be biased against Sony cams and pro Canon, and it certainly feels like this if you seek out the reviews for the HV20 and new HG10 (equivalents of the Sonys you are attempting to choose between).

On balance, I think a tape mechanism may well outlast a HDD, if you are lucky, or should that be unlucky. Tape will give better image quality and be easier to edit, and, as you say, much easier to archive.

I think that if you had this decision to make two years down the road you'd be going with a solid state memory camcorder, HDD IMHO is a blind alley, but as things stand today I think HDV tape is a better bet.

Indeed, faced with the same decision as you I bought a Canon HV10. Very cheap, very small and light, if you like the form factor, which I do.

[glesgaguyav]

Totally agree
Personally I wouldn't touch an HDD camera, one of those things that seemed like a good idea but really can be flawed, I remember buying a HDD PVR and the salesman saying "Ohhh a hard drive ! you'll need insurance for that "
Ok he wanted to sell the insurance but somewhere along the line he had a point, IMHO the camera would have to be handled with kid gloves.
Stick to tape for now, if you want a compact camera then consider the solid state cams although not all memory cards can be reliable (fake branded)

[rhubarbe]

It is a very interseting point that you make there. We few of us have had any qualms about swapping out our VCRs for HDD based PVRs, and yet we jib at doing the same for camcorders. Are we raising objections to the very idea of HDD for camcorders, or just for HD, for it seems to me that there are two issues.

Firstly, there is the question of the AVCHD codec and it's motion trails and lower image quality than the HDV based equivalent.

Secondly there is the fragility of HDDs.

It must be the latter that influences us more, since SD HDD cams are there or thereabouts in image quality terms as DV, at least in that 90% of footage is downconverted to DVD or MPEG-2.

OTOH, we don't tote our HDD based PVR's around in little bags.

Insurance? For a HDD? But they cost peanuts; why would ya???

[felix2]

If I could get a camcorder that recorded HDV (not AVCHD) onto HDD, I'd get it! I usually only film 10-20 minutes before transferring it onto the PC, sometimes an hour (possibly more on holiday!), so 6 hours of 25Mbps HDV on an 80GB HDD would be just fine and dandy for me. Being able to choose & delete takes/clips while I'm shooting would be great, as would quick transfer onto the PC. And yes, I love my set-top HDD/DVD recorder and kind of wonder why I'm wanting to buy a new tape-based camcorder! For me, it's mainly the question of the format, and needing to be able to use and edit HDV / DV.

I don't know how much there is in it between the longevity of a portable HDD being carried around in a little bag, and a tape mechanism (compared with the overall life of the camcorder...). There again, the idea of having to change a HDD inside a camcorder somehow seems less daunting than changing over a tape mechanism (but perhaps that's because I've got an electrical repair friend!!). Personally, I'd see it as a question between format (quality, support & "ease" of editing) against convenience. Even memory cards can fail with static!

PS. I'm unlikely to be convinced to splash out an extra £500 for Firestore HDD to plug into a tape camera, on my budget though!

[rhubarbe]

have you seen this cam, then? JVC GZ-HD7, records MPEG-2 Transport Stream to a 60GB HDD and gives about five hours in top quality.

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content...ons-Review.htm

It's not the HDV onto HDD that you wanted but it's close.

It's also fiendishly expensive.

[felix2]

I've seen it, but wasn't tempted to pursue it... Looks great on paper, with 3 CCDs too, but from the footage & a few comments I've seen, doesn't appear to live up to my (admittedly high) expectations given its price tag. Spending that, I'd seriously consider the HC7/HV20 + the Firestore!

[rhubarbe]

In what file format does the firestore store the footage?

[felix2]

The basic one says (on the Siren Technology website) it supports: SD - Raw DV, AVI Type 1&2, Matrox & Canopus AVI & QuickTime; HDV - 720p/1080i (*.m2t) - via firewire

[rhubarbe]

Interesting. I'll have a read of that.