Fed up now

[Val101]

Hi all

I’m totally fed up now with trying to decide which HD camcorder to buy, so I'm going to see which camcorder gets the most recommendations and that’s the one I’ll get, simple.

The camcorder has to be HD, but I have not decided between Mini DV or HDD. So if you good folks could help me choose, I would be very grateful.

I’m after the best picture quality but I have heard that HDD cannot match Mini DV for this, but some are saying that HDD has now caught up with Mini DV with regards to picture quality.

The only thing putting me off buying a HDD camcorder is picture quality and the fear that if the HDD develops a fault I’m stuffed.

Please, please, please help me decide.

[rhubarbe]

I've been going throught the selfsame torment for the last five weeks. For me the most important thing, after its being HD, was that it should be very light and small, or I just know I'd never tote it about with me enough to justify having bought it.

I also wanted a viewfinder, for reasons that, if you have read this forum over the last few weeks you'll know already.

Light, small, viewfinder and HD gave me just one choice: Canon HV10. So, that's what I bought. Plus it was cheap so that was a bonus.

Others on the shortlist:

HDR-SR7: just too big (for me)
HDR-CX6: no viewfinder but otherwise my second choice
HDC-SD1: bigger than HDR-CX6 with no other benefit
HV20: great but just too big


The fly in my ointment is the Panasonic HDC-SD7 which is just what I wanted but only NTSC, no viewfinder and records in AVCHD. There, talked myself out of that one.

There are rumours that the new Canon HG10 has overcome the AVCHD shortcomings but I doubt if it is true.

My bottom line was that if you have no tape you have no permanent archive, and you'll have multiple copies of mpeg-2 files on every PC you own just in case a HDD crashes and you lose all of your memories, whereas I'll bet you have loads of ancient VHS tapes from your last VCR gathering dust, taking no harm and ready at a moment's notice to spring to life once more. That was the clincher for me - a permanent archive from which I can always make a DVD or file copy should one get lost or damaged.

Oh, and the HV10 has far far better image quality than any AVCHD cam I looked at (IMHO).

[rhubarbe]

I have an almost encyclopaedic knowledge of HD camcorders now so list your wish list and I'll be the wizard.

[Val101]

cheers rhubarbe, ok heres a shortlist of the camcorders that I'm tempted by -

HDR-SR7 - worried about PQ and HDD life
HDR-SR8 - again worried about PQ and HDD life
HDR-HC7E - a bit too big when compared to the first two
HDR-CX6 - not really a contender due to it using Memory Sticks

Is it true that HDV gives better picture quality when compared to AVCHD or there not much in it?

For archive purposes, would I be able to copy footage to a computer harddrive and then copy it back to the camcorder thus using the camcorder as a HD Player, would doing this reduce the footage to SD?

Also if I edit AVCHD files would I be able to copy these edited files back to the HDD of the camcorder and play them back in HD?

Many Thanks

[rhubarbe]

I believe that it is true that HDV is better image quality than AVCHD but it's really only in fast motion objects that you'll notice what they call motion trails.

I think that AVCHD will catch up but not for a couple of years.

All of the Sony cams listed have an HDMI out port so you can connect straight to an HDTV and play the files directly from your camcorder. But, and it's a big but, you'll have to move the files off the HDD at some time and then you'll be back to square one: that's another area where tapes win.

I think that the HDR-SR8 is overpriced, you only get a HDD 40GB bigger for an extra £200.

If you are happy that the HDR-SR7 is small enough that you'll carry it with you then I say go fo it. It's the one I would have gone for except that I know it's too big for me to carry about every day. That, and the Canon HV20 are the pick of the bunch of current HDD cams IMHO. HV20 is a bit cheaper, doesn't have an extending viewfinder but does have a 24p mode that the Yanks think is great. Mind you their cams shoot in 1080 x 60i so 24p is quite a benefit to them. How much benefit it would be to us in PAL land is open to debate; 1080 x 50i transferring to 25p is a straightforward unless I have got hold of the wrong end of the stick.

If you want HDD cam I don't think you'll go wrong with HDR-SR7.

[Val101]

Thanks rhubarbe, thats brill advice, looks like the HDR-SR7 for me then.

You said that at some point I will have to move the files off the HDD and I will be back to square one, what do you mean by this.

I don't mind using my computer to save footage, but when I want to watch it I am happy to transfer it back to the camcorders HDD, how long would this transfer take using firewire?

Also will it remain HD if I tranfser back and both between PC and camcorder?

[senu]

HDD footage will not change wherever it is but AVCHD edited cannot be returned to HDD as such;Only if you use motion browser to do a simple cut edit is that possible.
Edited AVCHD cannot go back to the camcorders HDD as it doesn't stay AVCHD after editing unless a simple cut edit with "Motion Browser "is used,
Currently NLE Software(Like Vegas, Pinnacle Studio, Ulead VS 11) dont output AVCHD as AVCHD anyway except that destined for PSP, I Pod ect
Edited HDV (m2t) can be returned to tape
AVCHD is an ultra compressed format in which editing and return to AVCHD was not part of the its design "concept". It was meant to be an highly efficient high quality Hi def delivery format . This is why it took so long to get software (of varying abilities) to edit it. In fact only now is there a Mac editing title

AVCHD can be watched on a PS3 ( its HDD or Disc), off its own camcorder HDD ( as long as it remains unedited), or off a HTPC

[rhubarbe]

Are you familiar with network media players?

I have had more of these than my grandmother has darned socks. The best (so far is the TVix 4100/5100 range by DVICO of Korea. Read Hi-Jack's review of them here:

http://www.mpcclub.com/modules/Revie...5100_final.pdf

These play the AVCHD files (edited and unedited) have an HDMI connection and you can BYOD (Bring Your Own Drive) and save up to 1TB on a SATA drive.

They cost about £250, and take a 3.5" HDD, so cheaper and more space than a PS3, though they don't have a DVD player inbuilt, yet alone a BD player.

I had a 4100 and it was excellent. I sold it when I had finished the build of HTPC MKVI.

Did I say finished?

[Val101]

thanks guys for all your help, you have made the complicated un-complicated.

I cannot even begin to imagine asking these kind of questions to a sales person in comet/currys/dixon, would have just got a blank look I think yet they expect people to spend around a grand without really knowing what to expect from the item they have just purchased but they are more than happy to take your money.

I have seen a Sony HDR-SR8 going for £700 inc p&p, imported from hong kong, pal version. Might go for that. Beats paying up to and above £1000 in ripoff britain.

[rhubarbe]

Whoa, there!

What guarantees do you have that you're not going to get charged Import Duty and VAT on top when the cam arrives in the UK? That'll wipe out any price advantage of buying fromn HK, and what is the warranty position?

The seller (if it's on eBay that is) may tell you that you won't pay any VAT, but check through his feedback and see what other buyers have reported.

[Val101]

I still need to double check but reading feedback from other customers, they didn't pay vat or duty and you get a 12 months warranty in the uk, they have a uk customer support centre dealing with warranty issues.

But to be sure of the level of service I am going to ring their customer support people and see what kind of service i get, if its pants, i'll go elsewhere.