[Simba]

Hi there, im interested in the above two models. The SR5 fits perfectly into the pricemark at £582 and theres a 3 month old HDR-HC7 for around the same price.

im keen to get away from tapes and the idea behind the hard drive cam is great. Frstly, is it quicker and easier to transfer movies from the sr5 than the hc7?

The SR5 also records in 5.1 DD, which seems super also. In terms of audio the SR5 seems alot better but i noticed that on the picture side of things the HC7 has a higher gross pixel count on the CMOS, 3200k compared to 2100k and 1/2.9 ClearVid CMOS Sensor on the HC7 compared to a 1/3.0 ClearVid CMOS Sensor on the SR5. So my second question is, how does this affect the image quality, is the HC7 better in terms of picture (say good lighting conditions) than the SR5?

trying to weigh up the pro's and cons... .... i would highly appreciate everyones advice.

thanks,

Simba

[senu]

Originally Posted by Simba

Hi there, im interested in the above two models. The SR5 fits perfectly into the pricemark at £582 and theres a 3 month old HDR-HC7 for around the same price.

im keen to get away from tapes and the idea behind the hard drive cam is great. Frstly, is it quicker and easier to transfer movies from the sr5 than the hc7?

Yes ,the AVCHD files are simply drag and drop..via USB form camcorder to PC

HDV ( Mpeg2 HD transport stream files) m2t are transferred in real time like DV .. by firewire .. not rocket science TBH

But once on the PC.. AVCHD files are "harder to play" and Edit: ( if desired) You need a decent spec PC and AVCHD editing software is limited ( 2 or 3 titiles for now) on the PC.. and none on the Mac..for now

The HDV from HC7 is better quality but I would stress that the difference isnt really huge: Both are impressive 1080i HD!

The SR5 also records in 5.1 DD, which seems super also. In terms of audio the SR5 seems alot better but i noticed that on the picture side of things the HC7 has a higher gross pixel count on the CMOS, 3200k compared to 2100k and 1/2.9 ClearVid CMOS Sensor on the HC7 compared to a 1/3.0 ClearVid CMOS Sensor on the SR5. So my second question is, how does this affect the image quality, is the HC7 better in terms of picture (say good lighting conditions) than the SR5?

As the sesor sizes are near identical, Im not sure the Pixel count directly affects low light performance or IQ; both are more than sufficient for video , be it SD or HD regardless of format. The low light handling is a intrinsic ability of the cmos sensor and the Image processing engine
Pixel count matters for still capture. I dont know about the audio but Unless optimised to handle 5.1dd input , that advantage may be lost during editing

trying to weigh up the pro's and cons... .... i would highly appreciate everyones advice.

Im sure those in the know will be along shortly
HTH ( for starters!)

FWIW I think the HC7 is the better camcorder but with your wish to avoid tapes the SR5 may be better for you. I dont mind tapes

[redsox_mark]

I think Senu covered most of the points.

For quality and editing ease the HDV based HC7. For fast capture, ability to select clips without a PC to edit, and for those who don't like tapes the SR5 (or SR7).

HC7 also has more manual controls, and an external mic input. It's a more fair comparison to compare the HC7 with the SR1; these are similar in features. The SR5 is more comparable to the HC5.

In my view 5.1 mic is not important. 5.1 on a hollywood DVD is great, but this is done by mixing sound around the channels. When you are videoing something, generally the sound you want to capture is coming from in front of you, not all around you. E.g. if you are shooting a school play, do you really want the sound of the parents behind you?

[Simba]

thanks for that. i guess in terms of sound the amp could probably be used to output prologic2 or something else for surround.

im thinking that the pic quality will probably be near the same. iv played some samples of the hc7 on the ps3 and its excellent.

i guess it might be just a matter of wanting to have a collection of tapes that get cluttered around in a cabinet or go dvd or even backup on ps3.

the idea of real time transfer does seem tedious especially if i plan to have alot of video with hours and hours of footage.

is the feature set the same between 2? i couldnt spot anything else different apart from the cmos and audio. does the hc7 come with a dock? im guessing not...

simba

[Simba]

hi thanks for the advice!

[rhubarbe]

To my mind the biggest problem is the furture security of your clips once downloaded from the HDD of your cam.

I had a Pana SDR-S150 last year and I now have the clips on my HTPC, my TVix SH-4100, my laptop, my PC at work, my backup drive at work, my partner's back up drive at work....

If I had stuck to tape I'd just have a master and a copy on the HTPC.

OTOH, real time transfer is a major pain and was the reason I went SD camcorder in the first place.

I'm currently looking for an HD replacement of the SDR-S150....

[redsox_mark]

i guess it might be just a matter of wanting to have a collection of tapes that get cluttered around in a cabinet or go dvd or even backup on ps3.

I assume you will want to keep a backup of your footage on some media; DV tapes are not only reliable they are very small, so they don't create much clutter.

the idea of real time transfer does seem tedious especially if i plan to have alot of video with hours and hours of footage.

The question here is: are you planning to edit? Editing is worthwhile, but it can be tedious. To edit, you first need to watch what you have shot, and make some notes about what you want to keep/cut. You can watch this at the same time as you capture to the PC. With a HDD cam you quickly transfer to the PC.. then what? Watch the video on the PC? Just as tedious. To me the real advantage is if you don't want to edit at all. You know you want a specific clip off the camcorder, with HDD you can go straight to that, rather than have to find it on a tape. But for editing, I see little advantage.

is the feature set the same between 2? i couldnt spot anything else different apart from the cmos and audio. does the hc7 come with a dock? im guessing not...

The feature set is different as I said, but that is because the SR5 is the bottom of the AVCHD range and the HC7 is the top (of the pure consumer cams). In terms of features SR5 and HC5 are similar.

Update:

Today the AVCHD is not hard to edit at all, sony vegas can import AVCHD clip perfectly. The problem is:

1, you need a high end PC to handle AVCHD, play and edit
2, it is still not possible to export film into AVCHD. -- however, i can't find a single reason you want to do this anyway.

It looks sad (really?), however, bear in mind that, HDV video is very large in size, and AVCHD clip is relatively small.

Now, again , it is a SPACE VS. TIME situation - which is a classic dilemma in computer science.

===

About the tape vs harddrive, for me, harddrive is perfect because I am not professional film maker and i don't want to store those tapes forever. I know in the near future, all the data on harddrive will have a better place to stay

[redsox_mark]

Agree with your points littlelio. When I said "hard to edit" I meant needs a more powerful PC (which you have confirmed); also less software is available (but that is changing).

Of course if the PC is fast enough to edit it well, then the editing is no different.

I also see that AVCHD is more convenient for many people - it's a personal choice, and depends how you work.

[senu]

Originally Posted by littlelio

Update:

Today the AVCHD is not hard to edit at all, sony vegas can import AVCHD clip perfectly. The problem is:

1, you need a high end PC to handle AVCHD, play and edit

That about answers it... You are also limited in choice of software ( Vegas Ulead video Studio and Pinnacle Studio.. for Now)

2, it is still not possible to export film into AVCHD. -- however, i can't find a single reason you want to do this anyway.

I agree there

It looks sad (really?), however, bear in mind that, HDV video is very large in size, and AVCHD clip is relatively small.

a 400Gb HDD costs about £70.. Besides once you done with editing you can record to tape or use a compressed format for storage on HDD

Now, again , it is a SPACE VS. TIME situation - which is a classic dilemma in computer science.

You seem at home there

About the tape vs harddrive, for me, harddrive is perfect because I am not professional film maker and i don't want to store those tapes forever. I know in the near future, all the data on harddrive will have a better place to stay

Originally Posted by redsox_mark

Agree with your points littlelio.
I also see that AVCHD is more convenient for many people - it's a personal choice, and depends how you work.

..Horses for courses.. HDD is a great format and we know tape will become old hat someday... Till then the "non tape" formats need to prove convincing to some of us as a robust viable replacement.

Wel,l I study computer science (for a long time), a 10GB file REALLY upsets me - I mean, it is not a problem of money (tell me about how cheap HDD today), it SIMPLY upset me!

In short I just can't stand the noise of HDD when you are dealing with a huge file, it is killing me!

lol

and i am not worried about the software at all - years ago, there were barely choice of NLE software...

anyway...

BTW, senu, every time I read your comment of my thread, I have a feeling...

"I am a corpse mortuary and you are a CSI, open me up and fill me up with all kinds of reports... "

[senu]

Originally Posted by littlelio

Wel,l I study computer science (for a long time), a 10GB file REALLY upsets me - I mean, it is not a problem of money (tell me about how cheap HDD today), it SIMPLY upset me!

I only make the point that 13Gb for 1 hr seems a lot compared to any other format but very big HDDs are now affordable and common ...Nothing to do with your access to money.. Nobody IIRC has too much and what little or much we all do have has to go round!.. No offense intended at all

In short I just can't stand the noise of HDD when you are dealing with a huge file, it is killing me!

You really crack me up with that one!...
You should visit a Hospital intensive care unit for 1 hr with all the monitors going off evry minute..
HDDs accessing big files will suddenly seem very quiet!

and i am not worried about the software at all - years ago, there were barely choice of NLE software...

The reply was more to help the OP.understand why limited software titles and Higher end Hardware requirments may be a factor to consider when deciding on format.. Also some have own a mac.. got a camcorder only to find that niether the Mac OS nor editing software support was available....in 2007
Even if software was all over the place ,If you had no interest in editing , that wouldn't matter. I don't edit all my footage some just goes straight to DVD!!

BTW, senu, every time I read your comment of my thread, I have a feeling...
"I am a corpse mortuary and you are a CSI, open me up and fill me up with all kinds of reports...

That is a classic.. littlelio.. chill man, get that guitar out!
No Im a scientist ( and a Doctor) but not a forensic pathologist..
Perhaps unconsciously, analysing points is an occupational hazard and as sole mod here I do have to read all the posts...I actually don't comment on most.. Any comments made are meant to be helpful
Anyway
I believe many of such comments ( to yours) actually tend to reinforce your opinion to the OP or other interested parties... If you find any contentious pls feel free to shoot me!!

[ricflairandy]

What kind of spec pc do you need to edit avchd?

[richard plumb]

whats the situation with exporting? AVCHD sounds more convenient to me, but i'd need to be able to edit and export - ideally in HD.

I have a recent iMac with ilife 08, and a PS3 which in theory should play AVCHD. But if I can't export to AVCHD am I limited to just importing then burning a data DVD with no editing?

[redsox_mark]

Originally Posted by ricflairandy

What kind of spec pc do you need to edit avchd?

It depends on the software used. With Sony Vegas they say "2.8 GHz" needed with 512 MB memory recommended... but I think that is assuming a bog standard pentium; I've edited AVCHD with a 2.0 Ghz core duo laptop and that works well.

Originally Posted by richard plumb

whats the situation with exporting? AVCHD sounds more convenient to me, but i'd need to be able to edit and export - ideally in HD.

I have a recent iMac with ilife 08, and a PS3 which in theory should play AVCHD. But if I can't export to AVCHD am I limited to just importing then burning a data DVD with no editing?

I'm not a MAC user, but I don't believe there is any AVCHD editing support on a MAC, and even playing AVCHD may be an issue.

On a PC there are several editing packages which can edit AVCHD, but none of them export AVCHD. You can export however to HDV or other high def formats.

[felix2]

Originally Posted by redsox_mark

I'm not a MAC user, but I don't believe there is any AVCHD editing support on a MAC, and even playing AVCHD may be an issue.

Apparently ilife08 does support AVCHD - see thread here

[redsox_mark]

Thanks... I had missed that.