IEEE 1394 (Firewire) in and out options

[jetinder]

I want to get a new mini dv camcorder, i have 2 choices the JVC GRD760Ek and JVC GRD770

Both are around the same price give or take £4 and both have the usual USB and S video etc connectors.

The 760 can't input stuff via firewire but can output stuff via firewire.

The 770 can input and output stuff via firewire.

How important is input/output via firewire ?

Is USB just as good as firewire ?

[redsox_mark]

Generically speaking, USB2 and Firewire are similar in terms of speed, but - and it is a big but - DV camcorders and editing software were designed based on Firewire. With few exceptions, you must use Firewire to capture (output from Camcorder to PC), not USB, to capture in full quality.

Firewire output is all you need to capture, edit, and create DVDs etc. Firewire input is useful if you want to output your edited production back to tape.

[jetinder]

Originally Posted by redsox_mark

Generically speaking, USB2 and Firewire are similar in terms of speed, but - and it is a big but - DV camcorders and editing software were designed based on Firewire. With few exceptions, you must use Firewire to capture (output from Camcorder to PC), not USB, to capture in full quality.

Firewire output is all you need to capture, edit, and create DVDs etc. Firewire input is useful if you want to output your edited production back to tape.

Hi Mark

Thanks for letting me know , short answer once in the computer i want my family memories to go on to DVD, so having Firewire input is of no use to me as i cant use a mini dv tape any where else.

[senu]

Originally Posted by jetinder

Hi Mark

Thanks for letting me know , short answer once in the computer i want my family memories to go on to DVD, so having Firewire input is of no use to me as i cant use a mini dv tape any where else.

I would suggest you get firewire input even if you don't think you might need it now: giving your quoted examples you have nothing to lose and firewire input is meant to be a value added feature
The ability to put an edited project back to tape to use it ( the tape) as an archive rather then relying solely on DVD disc or HDD is one that may come in handy one day soon
If you have an edit you wish to "reedit" and cannot afford to leave it as DV avi on HDD, putting it to tape and recapturing later is not an unreasonable and unheard of idea

[jetinder]

Originally Posted by senu

If you have an edit you wish to "reedit" and cannot afford to leave it as DV avi on HDD, putting it to tape and recapturing later is not an unreasonable and unheard of idea

Cant you do that with USB ?

My PC is 4 years old and i dont have any firewire ports on it, i know you can get cheap firewire cards but if USB allows input of data from camcorder to PC and vi sa versa then i cant see the point of having a firewire card.

Originally Posted by senu

If you have an edit you wish to "reedit" and cannot afford to leave it as DV avi on HDD, putting it to tape and recapturing later is not an unreasonable and unheard of idea

That also sounds like a good idea as well, 1 hr of VHS tape captured in AVI format takes up 50gb before its editted and burned on to 4.3 gb DVD so having a camcorder which could temporarily store that editted file is an option LOL now i'm confused.................

You can get the JVC GRD 770 from Pixmainia's uk website
:-
http://www.pixmania.co.uk/uk/uk/5517...tml?itag=20038

but when you look you goto to JVC UKs website they only list the GRD 760.

Went to JVC Germany, America and India websites, they all list 770 but not the 760 so i dont know if the 770 is covered by normal warranty etc as the 770 could be a grey import.

Called piximainia but they asked to contact JVC.

Now i need time to think...........

Some times having so much choice isnt as much fun as it sounds.........

[DEREKDEL]

I've been editing video for a few years now,I use Ulead video Pro8.you must have a firewire input if using mini dv as not to loose any quality.First load video into the computer then edit and output back into camcorder then connect camcorder to a dvd recorder and record to dvd.When buying a camcorder make sure it has DV in as well as DV out.I know it seems a long way round but it is the only way to get a perfect Dvd with no loss of quality.
Thanks Derek.

[jetinder]

Originally Posted by DEREKDEL

I've been editing video for a few years now,I use Ulead video Pro8.you must have a firewire input if using mini dv as not to loose any quality.First load video into the computer then edit and output back into camcorder then connect camcorder to a dvd recorder and record to dvd.When buying a camcorder make sure it has DV in as well as DV out.I know it seems a long way round but it is the only way to get a perfect Dvd with no loss of quality.
Thanks Derek.

Doh .......... now i'll have to get a cheap firewire card

I use Magix movie Edit Pro 2005 to convert old VHS tapes to DVD, you can also connect Mini DVs etc to it, so that will handle the video editting as I'm use to using it.

I dont have a seperate DVD recorder my DVD burner is the one in my PC.

[senu]

Originally Posted by jetinder

Doh .......... now i'll have to get a cheap firewire card

£8 gets you the card ....and a cable...Because most newer motherboards ( 2-3 years old) have on board firewire the cards have become "cheap"

A bit more on that

While some Panasonic camcorders utilise USB for DV AVI transfer, most other brands ( and software) support Firewire exclusively

I have a costly external breakout box for Avid Liquid 7 Pro which uses USB2 but it is not the norm
USB2 does have a similar data transfer speed to firewire but video (DV AVI) of which large sized data streamed very fast needs a sustained throughput. USB is prone to peaks and troughs in data transfer rate which may make it less suitable for video transfer

This is so unless used with drag and drop (as with SD mpeg2 say on HDD camcorders) . Incidentally HDV mpeg2 is treated similar to DV AVI because of high bitrates and also requires firewire.
AVCHD ( HD but mpeg4 ( H.264) is easily transferred by USB

[redsox_mark]

Just to add some additional info and history...

As Senu mentioned, with DV you need to capture the digital stream and convert it into a file on the PC. The info on the tape, whilst it is digital, is not packaged in a file you can simply copy.

When DV was invented, it was built around Firewire. At that time USB either didn't exist or was 1.0 and too slow. The camcorders were designed to stream this full quality digital output only via Firewire, and editing software designed to only capture it using Firewire.

And for the most part, this is still true today. We discovered that some Panasonic models (but not the most recent ones) seem to capture via USB, but these also need to be used with software which can capture full DV via USB (also rare).

It is true that Firewire transfer doesn't have the peaks that USB2 has, also it has less impact on the CPU. But the main reason why DV works with Firewire is historical.

[jetinder]

Is mini DV technology still at 2002-2003 levels ?

[redsox_mark]

In terms of the format, yes. Obviously the camcorders have improved (for the most part), and become cheaper, editing software more advanced... but the core technology is unchanged.

Then there is HDV of course, though that is a different format, though related (uses the same DV tapes, and can downconvert to DV in camera generally).

[jetinder]

I've seen camcorders which have 3 ccds, but the ones in my budget from all manufacters have 1 ccd.

Although the core technology is the same even on 1 ccd has the picture quality become better ?

[redsox_mark]

Certainly for the money they are better. In terms of comparing like spec with like, not much difference. One of today's models with a single 1/6" CCD will perform similar to a model of several years ago with the same spec... though several years ago that camcorder would cost upwards of £1000; today £200 or less.

[jetinder]

I got a cheap firewire card off e-bay for £1.30 inc postage, got it this morning and it looks like its brand new. It has 3 external and 1 internal firewire ports.

After much thinking decided to get the GRD760 as its a UK spec model and JVC uk will support it.

It doesnt have DV in but i aint worried as i'd never use that feature.

Thanks to all who helped me in this matter.