Hi All,

Newbie here needing some advice.

I own a JVC Everio GZMG505EK 3ogb HDD camcorder - not a huge fan to be honest but own it now and just getting on with it! I do a lot of fun/rally driving and to enhance my footage have just taken delivery of a bullet cam with all the mounts etc required.

Now the bummer - made the mistake of assuming that the Everio would have an AV-IN input however it only appears to have AV-OUT which is nuts on what JVC considered their top end camera in the range when I purchased, but reality it would seem. The upgraded version does boast in/out.

Is there some sort of converter I can buy which will help me get round this? ?

If not, I am considering purchasing an Archos recorder/player to capture the bullet cam footage directly. If I do this I can record two angles of the same journey which could be cool. I currently edit in basic windows movie-maker - is there something which a non-pro can use that is slicker with effects like split screen?

Thanks for your help,


Marc

[redsox_mark]

Is there some sort of converter I can buy which will help me get round this?

I don't think so. There are devices which can convert AV to DV or other formats (to capture to a PC)... but what you want to do is take the bullet cam input into the camcorder, right? If the camcorder doesn't have AV-in there is no workaround for that.

is there something which a non-pro can use that is slicker with effects like split screen?

Yes, see this recent thread for some discussion of editing options
need some help from the pro's

[MarkE19]

A few years back you could get AV-in widgets to enable the inputs on 'some' camcorders. But then the EU tightened the tax laws saying that if the inputs were only software disabled then the cam would still be classed as a VCR which gets charged a higher tax. So for a while now all camcorders that don't have AV-in out of the box must have their inputs hardware disabled, and there is no realistic way of enabling them.

Mark.

Originally Posted by MarkE19

A few years back you could get AV-in widgets to enable the inputs on 'some' camcorders. But then the EU tightened the tax laws saying that if the inputs were only software disabled then the cam would still be classed as a VCR which gets charged a higher tax. So for a while now all camcorders that don't have AV-in out of the box must have their inputs hardware disabled, and there is no realistic way of enabling them.

Mark.

So there's no way round this. I hate this bloody camcorder - so disappointed with the quality of stills, and to an extent video, plus the format it records in was never the easy to use (another assumption - mpeg/avi) format I had hoped - and now this. I do not recommend the JVC HDD Everio range. And it was damn expensive - £750 a year ago.

Anyone got any other ideas or should I sell this on ebay and start again?!

[MarkE19]

Originally Posted by hedgerow

So there's no way round this.

Almost certainly not

Originally Posted by hedgerow

I hate this bloody camcorder - so disappointed with the quality of stills

TBH no camcorder taking photographs is going to be up to the standard of a dedicated stills camera, even a fairly cheap digicam. The resolution of the CCD is low for video, far below even a 1mp camera CCD. Also the other electronics are very different to get the best quality for the main purpose the camera/camcorder was designed for.

Originally Posted by hedgerow

and to an extent video

I can only assume that the mpeg compression is not that good - the down side to being an early adopter of a new format.

Originally Posted by hedgerow

plus the format it records in was never the easy to use (another assumption - mpeg/avi) format I had hoped - and now this.

Yet again as an early adopter of the format there was not that much software on the market that could get the best out of the highly compressed footage, but things are getting a lot better now with most editing software handling MPEG-2 video files fairly well.

Originally Posted by hedgerow

I do not recommend the JVC HDD Everio range. And it was damn expensive - £750 a year ago.

And to repeat my previous 2 comments above..........
As with all technology, at first it is expensive and when you look back in a few years time you could cry at the prices paid previously. About 5 years ago I paid over £3k for a SD plasma

Originally Posted by hedgerow

Anyone got any other ideas or should I sell this on ebay and start again?!

If you are really unhappy with the PQ then you can either give up or learn from your experiences and move on to newer (and hopefully) better hardware. Hey with ebay being what it is you could end up loosing less money on an upgrade than you might think - well maybe anyway.

Good luck,
Mark.

[senu]

Bearing all that in mind, I would give AVCHD based camcorders a miss for the present
They are new(ish) , still relatively costly ( getting cheaper though) Editing support is limited ( though emerging fast) and you need a relatively decent PC to play the footage fluidly and I dont know any with AV-in ( there may well be )

However , the quality is much closer to HDV than some of the SD mpeg HDD was to DV AVI on miniDV tape

Also to reiterate, Camcorders ( with very few exceptions) do not make great still cameras

An inexpensive miniDV SD model with av-in ( they are getting scarce too) would probably suffice: The Canon Md 101 comes to mind

[redsox_mark]

Unfortunatly the MD101 doesn't have AV-in (nor does the MD160).
In fact I don't know of a single current model consumer DV can with AV in. The ones which had it (MVX460, Sony HC96) are all discontinued.

[senu]

Originally Posted by redsox_mark

Unfortunatly the MD101 doesn't have AV-in (nor does the MD160).
.

True ....I was thinking of mic in when I mentioned it. As AV-in is that important a second hand model with it may not be a bad idea as ( for some reason) many of theses features have dissapeared from the newer comsumer models

Thanks for the advice guys - really appreciate it!!

I didn't expect the stills to be great, I have a Nikon D50 which does me fine as an amateur photographer entry level SLR, just hoped the pics would be better than my mobile phone!!

I think with all said I will look in to the newer options out there and chop in the JVC. I really need to stop 'needing' new gadgetary as soon as it becomes available!!!

Assuming that my main priorities are..

1) Video quality
2) Hard drive format of some sort
3) Capacity for several hours of footage
4) Footage recorded in a format immediately recognisable/playable/compressable and editable in standard PC software

..what would you guys recommend? Do the Sony cams fare better?

I am heading off to Hong Kong on business next weekend and camera kit is significantly cheaper out there, so could look to purchase new and sell the JVC on ebay. Any thoughts would be very welcome.

Thanks,


Marc

[senu]

Originally Posted by hedgerow

T

Assuming that my main priorities are..

1) Video quality
2) Hard drive format of some sort
3) Capacity for several hours of footage
4) Footage recorded in a format immediately recognisable/playable/compressable and editable in standard PC software

..what would you guys recommend? Do the Sony cams fare better?

.... Any thoughts would be very welcome.
Thanks,
Marc

Mark (Redsox) is the Guru with Models nos but I do think the Sony models are well regarded
Im only personally familiar with the Sony DCR SR90 ( which is a bit old now) and I was impressed with it comparing it to the JVCs at the time I had use of it
It has since been replaced by the 190 but I dont know enogh about that model to comment on it

Originally Posted by MarkE19

A few years back you could get AV-in widgets to enable the inputs on 'some' camcorders. But then the EU tightened the tax laws saying that if the inputs were only software disabled then the cam would still be classed as a VCR which gets charged a higher tax. So for a while now all camcorders that don't have AV-in out of the box must have their inputs hardware disabled, and there is no realistic way of enabling them.

Mark.

Do you know if there is/was a widget to enable a panasonic NV DS11B (1999 DV Camcorder ) to accept AV in? If so any idea where I can get hold of it?

[redsox_mark]

Originally Posted by hedgerow

Assuming that my main priorities are..

1) Video quality
2) Hard drive format of some sort
3) Capacity for several hours of footage
4) Footage recorded in a format immediately recognisable/playable/compressable and editable in standard PC software

Marc,

What about AV-in, do you need that?

Ignoring AV-in for the moment - what is your budget?

Forgetting budget... the issue becomes clash between requirement 1 and 4 and 2. If you want HDD, then it either needs to be SD MPEG2 (easy to edit), or HD AVCHD (harder to edit, software just now available).

Whilst I agree to an extent with Senu's reservations about AVCHD...I'd rather have one of them (e.g. SR1, or the new SR5/SR7) than the SD SR190/290, as they are HD. Though the SR190/290 are good, they are only SD...

Or you ignore the HDD requirement, get a Canon HV20 HDV camcorder (which also has AV-in), excellent quality, MPEG2 with good editing support.

[senu]

Originally Posted by Analogue

Do you know if there is/was a widget to enable a panasonic NV DS11B (1999 DV Camcorder ) to accept AV in? If so any idea where I can get hold of it?

If there was ( is) one.. These are the Guys you need to speak to

HERE

[senu]

Originally Posted by redsox_mark

Whilst I agree to an extent with Senu's reservations about AVCHD...I'd rather have one of them (e.g. SR1, or the new SR5/SR7) than the SD SR190/290, as they are HD. Though the SR190/290 are good, they are only SD...

Or you ignore the HDD requirement, get a Canon HV20 HDV camcorder (which also has AV-in), excellent quality, MPEG2 with good editing support.

The reservation is only a guarded one based in part on the OPs own experience with a " cutting edge" JVC.( at the time)
If I had to buy HDD camcorder now I would similarly buy one that does HD and record in SD with it for the time being or record very crucial events in AVCHD and turn them to SD Mpeg2 in software ( Vegas 7e should sort that out) and Im expecting Pinnacle Studio 11 any time in the next week or so

In some ways though the HV20 ( apart from not being HDD, and limited to the tape recording length) seems a very pragmatic suggestion. If used as SD and LP a standard tape could get 90 mins recording with the added benefit of AV-in
Marcs requirements are not unreasonable but a HDD camcorder ( and indeed SD miniDV) with AV in seem to never have been made or have gone the way of the dodo

The AV-IN requirement is so that I can use the bullet camera I just bought assuming the JVC would have the functionality.

Budget - well I spent £750 already excluding the bullet camera & mounts - not sure how much of this I would get back but assuming half, I guess I would put in another £250-300, so £600ish all in.

Very newbie question but if you buy a High Density HD camera and don't have an HD TV, are there any issues? Is the quality still better than standard?

[senu]

Originally Posted by hedgerow

Very newbie question but if you buy a High Density HD camera and don't have an HD TV, are there any issues? Is the quality still better than standard?

HD here stands for high definition

It doesn't matter if you do not have a High Definition TV... If you display it on a SD TV it will display as Normal definition... The quality will be good , as good as an SD display can get

As such You can use the High definition Camcorders to record as High def then display on an SD Display as SD or even use them to record SD.
it is when you record as SD , then playback via an HDTV that the extra benefits of HD become obvious

In the context of HD however, The tape based ones record in a different format:
A higher resolution higher bitrate encoded mpeg2 called HDV

The HDD ones use an " Advanced Video Coded High definition (AVCHD) which uses a cleverly compressed Mpeg4 ( H.264) in an mpeg 2 tranport wrapper" not surprisingly called Mpeg4 AVC ( AVCHD)

The HDV transport stream is called m2t while the AVCHDs HDMV

AVCHD editing support is emerging and It requires a PC with grunt for encoding and decoding
HDV editing is rather more mainstream and its PC requirements are more modest ( compared)
I have gone into some detail here because the High Definiton Camcorders which record to HDD do not have AV in and while they fulfil # 1-3 of your criteria, no 4 isnt quite as straighfoward, unless you use them to record in SD
The tape based High Def ( HDV) may have AV in ( CanonHV20) but don't fulfil #2,3 of your criteria
The Video quality in both HD formats is close though with the tape based HDV slightly ahead
With both varieties of High Def you can record SD and neither require you to nessesarily own an HDTV
HTH

Originally Posted by senu

If there was ( is) one.. These are the Guys you need to speak to

HERE

It doesn't appear that they do an AV in widget but they do a DV in enabler - wow!
thats great! although I have got to sort the cabling for the sofware switch.

Thanks for the link Senu

Your Bullet cam to MPEG4 recording with no software can be done with a Neuros R2+ recorder and a battery pack