[ndbob79]

Yesterday, I bought a Canon HV20 Hi Def video camcorder. Photography has become my middle age hobby (especially kids sports). Since I am not an expert, it is hard to read between the lines regarding what adjustments I need to make to actually film in hi def. Am I accurate making the following assumptions:

1) Unless you have a hi def camcorder, hi def mini DV tape, and a hi def TV, you will not actually visualize hi definition recordings.

2) Hi Definition mini DV tape is hard or impossible to obtain.

3) Though not strictly hi definition, the standard digital mini DV tape in a HV 20 Hi Def camcorder will be higher resolution than anything I have seen to date.

4) Since I like to store home videos is 2 different media (mini DV tape and DVD), transferring to DVD presents another set of problems, like the need for hi definition DVD discs (Blu Ray or HD-DVD) and a software program on my computer to convert it (like Pinnacle).

5) Blu Ray or HD-DVD discs are hard or impossible to come by.

6) It would take several (how many ?) standard DVD discs to transfer 60 minutes of hi definition mini DV tape and it would not really be high definition.

Other issues to consider:

1) I liked having a DVD Recorder with a hard drive because transferring mini DV to DVD was fast and easy this way. Editing was also fast and easy. Until Blu Ray and HD DVD recorders become more available, this mode of transfer with my new Canon HV20 from mini DV to DVD is not realistic and would not approximate high definition.

2) Therefore I need to use my laptop and Pinnacle to transfer high definition or standard mini DV to DVD. As it is, transferring standard mini DV to DVD on my laptop takes a considerable amount of time, far slower than the DVD recorder and sometimes errors before completion. Is that because my laptop is old ? (Mac OS X 10.4.9, 1.33 GHz Power PC G4, 1.5 GB DDR SDRAM). Do I need to get a new laptop or am I just a knucklehead ?

3) If I cannot find high definition mini DV tape, do I still need Pinnacle to transfer standard mini DV tape in the Canon HV20 to DVD by way of my computer ? I do not need Pinnacle to transfer mini DV to DVD using my Canon Optura (not high definition). I simply use iMovie and iDVD. Is that because iMovie and iDVD has built in software or is Pinnacle still necessary to transfer high definition on Mac ?

Am I missing some important points ? Thanks in advance.

[emocean]

Originally Posted by ndbob79

Yesterday, I bought a Canon HV20 Hi Def video camcorder. Photography has become my middle age hobby (especially kids sports). Since I am not an expert, it is hard to read between the lines regarding what adjustments I need to make to actually film in hi def. Am I accurate making the following assumptions:

1) Unless you have a hi def camcorder, hi def mini DV tape, and a hi def TV, you will not actually visualize hi definition recordings.

Correct except you do not need hi def tape, standard mini dv is fine.

2) Hi Definition mini DV tape is hard or impossible to obtain.

See above. No need to use HDV tape.

3) Though not strictly hi definition, the standard digital mini DV tape in a HV 20 Hi Def camcorder will be higher resolution than anything I have seen to date.

I'm not familiar with your camera but I presume it records in HDV1080i which is far higher resolution than SD(Standard Def) Cameras.

4) Since I like to store home videos is 2 different media (mini DV tape and DVD), transferring to DVD presents another set of problems, like the need for hi definition DVD discs (Blu Ray or HD-DVD) and a software program on my computer to convert it (like Pinnacle).

At present it is best to store your videos on tape if you want HD.

5) Blu Ray or HD-DVD discs are hard or impossible to come by.

Will become easier to obtain but I am waiting to see which format wins. Remember VHS v Betamax?

6) It would take several (how many ?) standard DVD discs to transfer 60 minutes of hi definition mini DV tape and it would not really be high definition.

Stick to tapes for now.

Other issues to consider:

1) I liked having a DVD Recorder with a hard drive because transferring mini DV to DVD was fast and easy this way. Editing was also fast and easy. Until Blu Ray and HD DVD recorders become more available, this mode of transfer with my new Canon HV20 from mini DV to DVD is not realistic and would not approximate high definition.

Correct

2) Therefore I need to use my laptop and Pinnacle to transfer high definition or standard mini DV to DVD. As it is, transferring standard mini DV to DVD on my laptop takes a considerable amount of time, far slower than the DVD recorder and sometimes errors before completion. Is that because my laptop is old ? (Mac OS X 10.4.9, 1.33 GHz Power PC G4, 1.5 GB DDR SDRAM). Do I need to get a new laptop or am I just a knucklehead ?

Again you are correct so therefore not a knucklehead
A new laptop would speed things up but still not as fast as going from Mini DV into you domestic DVD recorder and unless you spend a bundle on a Blu Ray or HD DVD laptop with at least 256mb of graphics and 2GB of ram you still won't be able to produce Hi Def DVD's. I'm not a mac man so not sure of req specs for those.

3) If I cannot find high definition mini DV tape, do I still need Pinnacle to transfer standard mini DV tape in the Canon HV20 to DVD by way of my computer ? I do not need Pinnacle to transfer mini DV to DVD using my Canon Optura (not high definition). I simply use iMovie and iDVD. Is that because iMovie and iDVD has built in software or is Pinnacle still necessary to transfer high definition on Mac ?

Sorry, not sure on Macs

Am I missing some important points ? Thanks in advance.

I think you have come to the same conclusion as me. That is that cameras are slightly ahead of HI Def DVD production methods at the moment. I imagine within 12 months things will even out but it will be at least another 12months before prices fall. When I first started editing VHS was the most economical method of producing copies and DVD slowly became more and more viable. My first DVD recorder with DV in was £350 now they are available for less than £100. At the time I bought the recorder it was the fastest method to produce 5 copies but now it is quicker in Pinnacle/Nero and I can add titles, chapters etc.

[felix2]

Hi,

Other people know more about how to watch HD than I do, but a few pointers to help start you on your way (I hope!):

The HV20 (like the other HDV models) gives you the option of either recording in hi-def HDV on mini DV tape, or in standard def DV on mini DV tape. You don't have to use special hi-def tapes, normal ones (e.g. Sony Premium) record the hi-def data exactly the same, but may in theory be prone to a few more 'drop-outs' (there have been a couple of threads about this recently if you search).

If you record in hi-def (HDV), you can output via HDMI to a hi-def TV. Or you can transfer from the camcorder to your PC via firewire as HDV (as a hi def 'MPEG2 Transport Stream') and into your editing software. Or you can get the camcorder to 'down-convert' to standard def DV-AVI (as used on standard def mini DV camcorders), either onto your PC or onto your HDD/DVD recorder. Incidentally, the hi def MPEG files are 13GB per hour of footage - the same as for DV-AVI (standard def mini DV), which is why it uses the same tapes - it's obviously just more compressed.

If you record in standard def (SD), it's exactly the same resolution (720x576 in PAL areas) as every other SD camcorder and telly. So the resolution of the HV20 either recording in SD or downconverting to SD won't be any better than the resolution of any other SD camcorder. But subjectively, people have said that HD footage from an HD camcorder downconverted to SD can actually look better than SD footage shot on an equivalent SD camcorder. Similarly SD tellies will only show SD resolution, but the HV20 will probably look better (even in SD) than almost any SD camcorder in that price range.

On how to transfer, store & archive HD footage, yes I think the DVD-HD / Blu-ray technology is still a bit behind the camcorders, but at least HDV editing has come on further than AVCHD (disk / solid state hi def format) so far... And there are ways to put hi def footage onto disc that will work (as I'm sure someone will explain!). Hope that helps for now anyway.

[redsox_mark]

1) Unless you have a hi def camcorder, hi def mini DV tape, and a hi def TV, you will not actually visualize hi definition recordings.

Correct except for the part about the tape. See question 2 and 3.

2) Hi Definition mini DV tape is hard or impossible to obtain.
"HDV tape" is just a branding thing. Tapes branded as HDV are in theory better quality, as in more robust, less prone to dropouts. But dropouts are rare, and if you don't get any, the quality from a DV tape is exactly the same.

"HDV" tape is easy to get, but costs a lot more.

3) Though not strictly hi definition, the standard digital mini DV tape in a HV 20 Hi Def camcorder will be higher resolution than anything I have seen to date.

See question 2, it is strictly high definition.

4) Since I like to store home videos is 2 different media (mini DV tape and DVD), transferring to DVD presents another set of problems, like the need for hi definition DVD discs (Blu Ray or HD-DVD) and a software program on my computer to convert it (like Pinnacle).

Yes you will need software to create DVDs. You can do all of the following:

- Create a "mini HD DVD" by putting high def on an ordinary DVD. With this you get 23 mins on a single layer disc; 46 on a dual. But you'll need a HD-DVD player to play this.. or you can play it from a PC.

- Downconvert to SD, and make an ordinary SD DVD.

- You can burn Bluray or HD-DVD discs today, but both burners and discs are expensive.


5) Blu Ray or HD-DVD discs are hard or impossible to come by.

Not hard to come by, but expensive.

6) It would take several (how many ?) standard DVD discs to transfer 60 minutes of hi definition mini DV tape and it would not really be high definition.

You would need 3 single layer discs. It would be really high definition if use the HDV files, and software which can do this (like Ulead DVD Movie Factory).


1) I liked having a DVD Recorder with a hard drive because transferring mini DV to DVD was fast and easy this way. Editing was also fast and easy. Until Blu Ray and HD DVD recorders become more available, this mode of transfer with my new Canon HV20 from mini DV to DVD is not realistic and would not approximate high definition.

Correct. You can do this today with your HV20 but only if you have the camcorder downconvert to SD (DV).

2) Therefore I need to use my laptop and Pinnacle to transfer high definition or standard mini DV to DVD. As it is, transferring standard mini DV to DVD on my laptop takes a considerable amount of time, far slower than the DVD recorder and sometimes errors before completion. Is that because my laptop is old ? (Mac OS X 10.4.9, 1.33 GHz Power PC G4, 1.5 GB DDR SDRAM). Do I need to get a new laptop or am I just a knucklehead ?

I'm not an expert on Mac specs... rendering HD is slower. You shouldn't get errors though.

3) If I cannot find high definition mini DV tape, do I still need Pinnacle to transfer standard mini DV tape in the Canon HV20 to DVD by way of my computer ? I do not need Pinnacle to transfer mini DV to DVD using my Canon Optura (not high definition). I simply use iMovie and iDVD. Is that because iMovie and iDVD has built in software or is Pinnacle still necessary to transfer high definition on Mac ?

Again I'm not a MAC user, but I don't believe iMovie supports HDV today, which is why you need additional software to capture it. On a Windows PC there are various free utilities which can be used, and with Vista I believe it has HDV support built in.

Edit: Was replying at the same time as felix2 and emocean, hence the overlap of replies.

[ndbob79]

Many thanks to all of you; you have been great help and I appreciate it !

Hi, I am beginner with camcorders but since wanting to get started for a while, after a lot of research have recently bought a Canon HV20. I have been really pleased with my first efforts at filming, and have now started trying to edit the footage on my pc. One of the reasons I spent the extra on this camera was to be able to record and watch high definition footage, preferably without having to wait for months! Using HDVSplit I have transferred my footage to my pc, and am now looking for suitable software to edit it, and produce material for our High-Def tv. Sony Vegas Movie Studio +DVD 6 Platinum and Adobe Premiere Elements seem to be the two front runners for reasonably priced software. However, I am unsure of the output formats. We have a home cinema system which will play DivX and WMA as well as 'upscaling' normal DVDs. Please would someone spare a few moments to put me straight on whether the Sony/Adobe software will allow me to record edited footage onto DVD discs in 1080i high definition in eg DivX or WMA format so that we can view my masterpieces on our home tv?! We have not yet got a HD-DVD player, but from the other threads that seems like it may be the only current way to author and view amateur high definition films at home?

[redsox_mark]

I can only answer for Vegas, though I think the same applies to Premiere Elements.

By "WMA" I assume you mean Windows Media (.wmv)? Yes, you can render out to .wmv in High Def.

As for DIVX, as long as you have the codecs on your system, you can render out to that.

[senu]

While I agree that you can output to WMV-HD ( as long as you have the WM9 encoder on your system) and similarly with Divx HD encoder
Certainly you get to see your HD in all its glory on the PC

The case for TV playback is not as clear:
Your DVD player may not output them as such for playback..In fact it will either "downscale them" or refuse to play them
If it does downscale to "interpret" them, I dont think it then upscale for output, If it does, you may have well have started off with SD WMV for all the effort


If you do want to watch the files as HD on a Display ( and not a PC) a no of options come to mind

WMV HD files on a PC with the Windows Media edition of XP streamed to xbox 360 with the media extender. Im not sure if the teething problems with vista have been sorted

wmv-hd files burnt to "normal" DVDs play on the HD DVD drive of the xbox360 ( look at the xbox forums for more info on that)

m2t files burnt to a data DVD and played via a Playstation3

a Mini HD-DVD made by authoring to a "normal" DVD disc with suitable software and played on a HD DVD player

Otherwise: print the edited HD footage back to tape and play from the HV20 to your display via component or HDMI

HTH