[redsox_mark]

The choice of High Def cams is increasing rapidly...

Sony has announced their first AVCHD model to record to flash memory cards, the CX7
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content...---HDR-CX7.htm

As well as 2 new HDD AVCHD cams, the SR5 and SR7
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content...Camcorders.htm

These are all AVCHD, so the concerns about ability to edit the format still exist, but with the increasing number of AVCHD models it's only a matter of time for the software to catch up.

[redsox_mark]

The SR5/SR7 article also says:

Sony’s Vegas Movie Studio Platinum Edition version 7.0e and Vegas Movie Studio Platinum Edition, available in July

I think they mean to say that both "full" Vegas and Vegas Movie Studio Platinum Edition will get this support in July. Vegas is currently on 7.0d, so the 7.0e must refer to full Vegas. Movie Studio Platinum is currently on 7.0a, so I guess we'll see a 7.0b there.

[redsox_mark]

In Canada at least there also is a SR8 model...
http://www.sony.ca/sonyca/view/engli...4164524D.shtml

Not sure which models we'll get here...

[senu]

Thanks ..
gives hope to AVCHD,

It is worrying though how many models now exist and the editing support is still so poor, Even if Vegas leads the pack, not every body uses Vegas not especially Mac users

And then PCs need to get "faster" to cope !!...

[a_friend]

Well i think the HDR-SR7 is perfect for me but will be very eager to get it in June.

Come on Sony Europe get a move on....

[redsox_mark]

It ships on June 27 in the US.... I can't see it being available in Europe until then at the earliest.... we tend to get them later than the US, not earlier.

[redsox_mark]

The SR5, SR7, and SR8 are showing on the Sony UK web site now
http://www.sony.co.uk/view/ShowProdu...ard+Disk+Drive

As well as the CX6 (our version of the CX7)
http://www.sony.co.uk/view/ShowProdu...n+Memory+Stick

Press release by Sony Europe on the new SR5/7/8
http://www.sony-europe.com/res/attac...5002596597.pdf

The Sony Handycam SR5E, SR7E and SR8E will be available throughout Europe
from June 2007

And here is the press release on the tiny CX6 Flash Memory based cam
http://www.sony-europe.com/res/attac...5002596456.pdf

The Sony Handycam® CX6EK will be available throughout Europe from July
2007

[senu]

The AVCHD support is growing: Uleads Video Studio 11 Plus and Movie Factory 6 Plus are joining the club ( Vegas and Pinnacle Studio)
Vista support is the welcome addition

[felix2]

I'd better hope that Serif MoviePlus 6 will offer a full range of editing formats, including smart MPEG rendering, not to mention actually being able to output HDV rather than just capture and edit it! I think it's still possibly months away rather than weeks though.

[senu]

My Vegas 7 , and Pinnacle MP3 pro..have playing up..lately

Vegas in particular was unwilling to output anything to WMV ( SD and HD) until I reinstalled WM 9 codec for another reason yesterday..

My point : It isn't always apparent that other existing codecs on ones system can influence the working of newer software

I then found that even non HD sources can be "upscaled" to WMV HD (720p or 1080i)..
I'm sure no extra detail was added but the resulting wmv looked fluid and watchable

[marian99]

Simple Q: is HDR-SR5 worth 200-300$ more than SR200 ?

[redsox_mark]

Simple question maybe... but hard to answer.

First of all the SR5 isn't out yet, so we can only go by the spec as well as the known performance of the SR1. All 3 of these cams: the SR190/200, SR1, and SR5 share the same sensor and lens.

So I think we can safely assume that the video performance of the SR5 is similar to the SR1. (Though the SR1 has some additional features like the focus ring).

In terms of video performance, being high definition the SR1/SR5 will produce significantly better video when viewed in high definition. If that is worth the money is a personal choice.

If you are planning to make standard definition DVDs from the footage, then today you'll be better off with the SR190/200. It's easier to edit, it's already in DVD compliant format.

But if you want to watch HD footage on a HD screen - either direct from the camcorder, or by getting a device which will play AVCHD DVDs (like the PS3)... then the AVCHD cams are worth it.

Unless you want to reconsider tape and look at HDV cams... but I know you want a HDD based one

[marian99]

sure, I am more into HDD
The other thing I consider is editing - currently I have IBM Thinkpad T60 which might be not enough powerfull to be used for any AVCHD editing. What do you think ?

[redsox_mark]

You're in luck... I'm using a T60, and using Vegas 7.0e it edits the AVCHD sample clips I have just fine. I've not tried anything very fancy... if you have lots of tracks etc the preview might not be full rate... but I think you'll be OK.

[marian99]

Mark
you said "If you are planning to make standard definition DVDs from the footage, then today you'll be better off with the SR190/200. It's easier to edit, it's already in DVD compliant format" - I do not have any AVCHD player so what for me is logical untill I have one to tape in SD and once I have (ie PS3) then I would simply switch to HD on the same cam, SR5. I know someone could say why the hell then to buy HD camera but buing SR5 now would cover for my needs of SD footage now and HD footage later on (just simply choosing the format on the cam). Am I stupid or what ?????

[marian99]

... as I believe SR5 will (in SD mode) record with the output files mpg (same as for SD HDD cams). Or is it different ?

[redsox_mark]

Yes the SR5 has an option to record in MPEG2 SD or AVCHD HD.

What I was saying about comparing the SR190/200 and the SR5, is that if you are only interested in SD, there is no real advantage to the SR5.

But...

To your question

untill I have one to tape in SD....

You aren't stupid , but I wouldn't do it like that. The reason being - you want what you shoot today in the highest quality possible. If you shoot in HD today, then eventually when you get the kit to play it, you can reissue your old footage in HD. If you shoot SD now, you are stuck with SD.

I have a HD cam (HC1).... I don't have a HD-DVD player or anything like that, and I don't even have a HD TV. But I still shoot in HD. I create a SD DVD, and a HD master (in my case on HDV tape) to save for later. Eventually I'll get a HD TV and DVD player, and can reissue my old master. In the meantime even on a SD display my footage looks very good.

So if you went for a SR5, I'd suggest to shoot in AVCHD, convert in software, and save that AVCHD footage. In the very short term (e.g. if you don't have the software yet) you can shoot SD... but I'd start shooting HD as soon as you can.

[marian99]

Mark
I do not get it. You said ...
But I still shoot in HD. I create a SD DVD - how can you make from HD video SD DVD? You saying that I record AVCHD and burn it to DVD SD? and play it in normal DVD player? or do I need to record in SD to play it in standard DVD player ? .. now you made me confused

What I would like is to record in AVCHD and then burn down to standard DVD even though the copy will be in SD, I will keep the original AVCHD on my external HDD and in few years burn it to BD or HD-DVD.

[redsox_mark]

What I would like is to record in AVCHD and then burn down to standard DVD even though the copy will be in SD, I will keep the original AVCHD on my external HDD and in few years burn it to BD or HD-DVD.

Exactly!

Sorry if I wasn't clear... this is exactly what I am suggesting, and what I do (except in my case it is HDV instead of AVCHD, but the idea is the same).

how can you make from HD video SD DVD

Software! Take your AVCHD or HDV, edit it in editing software (in my case Sony Vegas), and "render" (output) the edited fine in SD MPEG2 format, which you use to author and burn an ordinary, SD, DVD. You still have the original AVCHD file(s).

To save time in future I also create a HDV version of my edited project, which I save back out to HDV tape.

I'm not sure if with AVCHD you can render back out to AVCHD. I can't find the settings to do this in Vegas. But in any case you could apply the edits to the original file.

[marian99]

Great, this is what I will do. Thanks Mark.
So now I am moving from SR200 to SR5 as I believe the 5 is more "future cam" than 200. And along with the AVCHD editing SW there should be no editing issues either. I just hope that SR5 will have better performance than it was the case for SR1 (some issues with artefacts etc.). Anyone has any experience with SR1 which would proved me wrong ?

[redsox_mark]

I've seen SR1 footage and didn't see any issue with artifacts. Any are very minor.

[marian99]

Mark
on camcorderinfo site ther review says that the footage has some noise, compared to lets say HC1 (there was none on HDV). Did you notice the noise when seeing the footage? How bad is it ? I am not too picky but would not like to see from 1100$ cam some kind of noisy video.
How would you compare footage of yours HC1 vs SR1 ? Is it visibly different ?

[redsox_mark]

Camcorderinfo do excellent detailed reviews, but you need to know how to read them! They look in great detail, and may point out something which sounds bad (e.g. video noise) which is actually quite minor.

The real clue in that SR1 review is in the comparison section, where they compare it to the HC3. Now the HC3 is excellent... and their conclusion is "Despite its slightly inferior video, the features tip the balance in favor of the SR1." If they say the different is slight, you are unlikely to notice it. If this noise was bad they would not have recommended it over the HC3.

Did you see on another thread in this forum I posted a clip which contained a mix of HDV (HC1) footage and AVCHD (SR1)? This clip is downconverted to SD MPEG2 (for DVD), as the idea was to see if AVCHD downconverts as nicely as HDV.
http://www.mbryant.aquiss.com/video/avctest.mpg

The cat is from the HC1 (one of my clips), the water and windmill from the SR1. Whilst I think the cat is a more attractive subject, I don't see any noise issue on the other clips.

You can find the raw SR1 clips here
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/do...9/zooma268.htm
but you may not have the software to play them.

[marian99]

thanks. I expect the SR5 will be performing same as SR1 only stripped off to get to lower price, that's why I compare SR1 to HCs. thanks for video, I'll watch it.

[marian99]

Mark, I would like to ask you one more question, easy for me but might be harder to answer.

If you liked the HDD based cams (as you dont) - would you buy SR1 based on its video performance quality ?

I do not question now the handling, manual controls and all that additional stuff which is there, just pure video performance.
Thanks for your opinion.

[redsox_mark]

I don't dislike the the HDD cams...it's more that I'm OK with tape.

The answer is yes, I'd be happy with an SR1, especially now that there is editing support, and I've tried that and it's pretty much as easy to edit as HDV. If I was to get a new cam and wanted it to be HDD based I'd get a SR1.

[a_friend]

I was reading on a a few sites that these will be available form the europe sony style shop in June.


Check this link

http://www.pixmania.co.uk/uk/uk/5487...inition-c.html

http://www.pixmania.co.uk/uk/uk/5486...inition-c.html

[marian99]

I have questions to all having an AVCHD cam or used one.

Would there be a picture quality difference recording at 15Mbps vs 9 Mbps at HD resolution ?

2. Would it have any effect on editing ?

Thanks

[redsox_mark]

1. Yes, with any compressed format there will be a quality difference depending on the bitrate. I've only seen clips at the highest bitrate. Depending on the material and your eyes you may or may not notice the difference.

2. Other than the file sizes will be larger with the higher bitrate, editing shouldn't be any different.

[a_friend]

The SR5 and SR7 are now available on the europe sony style website for pre order but no dates are given