Sorry, another which camcorder thread

[GSXRMovistar]

Evening all, for the last month I’ve been looking into replacing my ancient Canon MV1 (http://www.canon.com/camera-museum/c.../1998_mv1.html) with a new MiniDV camcorder for capturing clips of my daughter and for use on an upcoming honeymoon.

Only problem is the more I’ve looked into and the more I’ve been reading www.camcorderinfo.com the more confused I am as to what to go for.

The original shortlist was the Sony DCR-HC96 or Panasonic NV GS300 / GS250 with preference going to the Sony as it has AV in and it’s a little lighter.

Although I’m not sure if I’m over spec’ing for what I actually need, original intention was a camera that is small enough to take most places (if it’s too big it won’t get used), captures good quality video (including indoors/low light) and has DV in for putting edited movies back to tape for archive.

With this in mind my second short list is something cheaper like the Sony HC46, Panasonic GS180, or the Canon MV960.

So the question is, is it worth going for one of the slightly more expensive cameras and is there much difference in video quality between the lot of them?

Any help on this with all this is greatly appreciated, thanks.

PS. Any thoughts on the Sanyo Xacti VPC-HD1a? (Yes I know something completely different!)

[GSXRMovistar]

Anyone?

[senu]

Originally Posted by GSXRMovistar

......The original shortlist was the Sony DCR-HC96 or Panasonic NV GS300 / GS250 with preference going to the Sony as it has AV in and it’s a little lighter.

All good choices (if you can find them)

Although I’m not sure if I’m over spec’ing for what I actually need, original intention was a camera that is small enough to take most places (if it’s too big it won’t get used), captures good quality video (including indoors/low light) and has DV in for putting edited movies back to tape for archive.

None of them is that big ( compare to 4-5 years ago they are "tiny")
.Low light abilities increase with price and you may need to be realistic in expectations of Low light abilities at this price point
Be aware that too that "Pocket" camcorders tend to sacrifice other quality parameters in achieving size reduction for your convenience

So the question is, is it worth going for one of the slightly more expensive cameras and is there much difference in video quality between the lot of them?

In general yes although this difference may vary from subtle to quite marked, although the cost difference may also come from features you may or may not find useful. The very marked PQ differences will come with a bit more .. dosh

Any thoughts on the Sanyo Xacti VPC-HD1a? (Yes I know something completely different!)

I personally think ...not in the league of any of the above on your shortlist

Redsox-Mark is our "expert" in these matters I'm sure he'll come along with a more helpful reply.. soon

[GSXRMovistar]

Thanks, really leaning towards the Sony DCR-HC96 at the moment.

[senu]

Originally Posted by GSXRMovistar

Thanks, really leaning towards the Sony DCR-HC96 at the moment.

If you can get the Panasonic GS 250 at a similar price I would seriously consider them side by side

[GSXRMovistar]

The GS250 seems to be rarer than rocking horse poo with a price that reflects this.

I'm even finding the Sony HC96 slightly hard to obtain as most places have been informing me that this model has been discontinued for some time.

Confusing thing is there doesn't appear to be any current models that provide the same features as these.

[redsox_mark]

Originally Posted by GSXRMovistar

I'm even finding the Sony HC96 slightly hard to obtain as most places have been informing me that this model has been discontinued for some time.

Confusing thing is there doesn't appear to be any current models that provide the same features as these.

It has only been in the last couple of weeks that Sony launched new models and moved the HC96 to be an "archived product", so it hasn't been "discontinued for some time". Actually I had seen an announcement from Sony USA that the HC96 was going to continue to be a current model in 2007, but it seems not so for the UK. Anyway you should still be able to find a HC96, several places show it in stock
http://www.pricerunner.co.uk/sound-a.../548648/prices

The reason you are seeing less features in new DV models is that manufactuers are focussing more and more on other formats: In SD HDD and DVD formats plus some solid state; and increasingly HD formats (HDV and AVCHD).

In terms of comparing quality of a HC96/GS300 (which are similar to eachother) with say the Canon MV930/960 - is hard to describe. I'd describe the difference as significant but not great. It depends on how critical your eye is, and what you are displaying it on. If you are watching on a small screen you may not be able to tell much difference; on a 50 inch plasma the inperfections will show up more. The Canon MV range is good value for money.

Canon also has new models coming out (replacing the MV range). Panasonic is also launching new DV models but I don't have details on those.

[GSXRMovistar]

Originally Posted by redsox_mark

.....

Thanks for the info.

I went out this morning and took a look at a few cameras for size etc, found the Panasonics (gs250/300) to be too big so they are now off the list.

Updated shortlist is now down to these,

Canon MV960 - £255
Canon MVX460 - £320
Sony HC96 - £380

They seem to pretty much share the same features so I'm guessing it's going to come down to quality vs value for money.

Arrragghhh decisions decisions!

[GSXRMovistar]

Okay after yet more reading I'm now going in a different direction and looking at a Hi-Def camera, in particular the Canon HV10.

It seems to have everything I'm looking for (DV/AV in, small size, good battery), the question is, is there any reason I shouldn't opt for this camera?

[redsox_mark]

The HV10 is a fine camcorder, so there is no reason not to get it, but 2 things to consider:

1. It does not have a HDMI jack (which it's rival HC3 does).

2. The small size goes with the "matchbox" or "upright" style, which many find less confortable to hold and shoot with. But if very small size is important to you this may be OK.

Note the new HV20 addresses both the above points.

The others (which I assume you have considered) are the Sony HC3/5/7. They all have HDMI, but they don't have AV input.

[GSXRMovistar]

Thats cool then, not too fussed by the HDMI port as all footage will go via the PC first.

And the shape/comfort thing I'm happy to live with as size is one of the main critrea.

Probably go ahead and order from EmpireDirect as it's appears to be the cheapest place (£690) unless anyone else knows of somewhere cheaper.

[redsox_mark]

That's the cheapest I've seen in the UK. You may be able to get it a bit cheaper on ebay importing from US or China; though the US models will be NTSC when used in DV mode, and you have to deal with VAT or not....

[karkus30]

Originally Posted by GSXRMovistar

PS. Any thoughts on the Sanyo Xacti VPC-HD1a? (Yes I know something completely different!)

I cant help, but it is an area I am interested in. Panasonic do a similar unit with 3 CCDs.....have a look at Camcorderinfo there is a review and its pretty good. I dont think that these camcorders are as good as something like a Sony HD unit, but they are beginning to close the gap and as memory prices become cheaper (2GB is only £12.00) and increase in size (already at 4GB) these are probably going to take over the budget end of the Camcorder range.

[senu]

An opinion : part fact / part gut feeling:

The Solid state media based camcorders are going one step further with the convenience of tapeless recording.

There are very high end broadcast standard implementations by Sony and Panasonic but at the level of the Sanyo Xacti the IQ compromises and inability to do much with the footage are a for me. Plus the media are not VFM

I guess Im not alone as they are not really that popular for the same reason.
I think the manufacturers are testing the waters and for early adopters that cold be a good .. or very bad thing as they may end up with "lemons"
Spend with care

[redsox_mark]

The Xacti VPC-HD1a is the cheapest "camcorder" that calls itself HD... other than that.....

Panasonic does make a couple of good consumer cams which record to SD cards - the SD SDR-S150, and the HD/AVCHD HDC-SD1. The only issue with SD cards is the limited size vs. HDD cams. As larger SD cards get more common we'll see more and more solid state camcorders.