[John103175]

Hi, I have 2 camcorders...I have used Firewire to pass information from and to the computer. I have had one camera repaired because the firewire capability stopped. (It has since stopped working again) The camera / computer did not recognise one another. I have heard (on the Grape Vine) that a modern method is to shut down the camcorder....shut down the computer....connect the firewire cable, then restart everything. Otherwise, you will blow up your camcorder firewire, and make it unconnectable to your computer. This bothers me in a Plug and Play era. What also bothers me is that no one has noticed this problem. Please , Is Firewire causing problems on camcorders? Is the way forward to shut down both, and restart? I don't want to keep paying for camcorder repairs.....can anyone agree...or disagree with my thoughts?
Many thanks in anticipation....JS

[John103175]

I should have added....my original camcorder....the Old faithful, also lost the firewire connection recently...adding to my suspicion that my computer is wrecking my camcorder firewire.....JS

[redsox_mark]

The recommendation (from Sony at least) is to always connect the Firewire cable to the computer first, then connect to the camcorder. "Connecting in the opposite order may cause static electricity to build up resulting in a malfunction of your camcorder".

As for disconnecting, it doesn't say, but I do it in reverse order; disconnect from the camcorder, then from the PC. I don't think it is neccessary to shut down, but it can't hurt.

Failure of Firewire ports does seem fairly common. Technically I'm not sure why Firewire is more troublesome in this respect than say USB.

[jaymac]

Panasonic also similar to sonys advise + switch pc on first then camcorder.I now leavethe cable connected to the pc and connect/disconnect Cam as and when required.Maybe not advisable but if you have a rear port more practical

[John103175]

Thank you, I like the idea of leaving the firewire cable plugged in at the back of the computer. I am still interested in anyone has had their camcorder firewire wrecked.

[jaymac]

I'm not advising that just the way I do it

[Ixion]

I have a Sony VX9000E and some years ago the Firewire connection became unreliable; sometimes it would work and sometimes it wouldn’t.

Fortunately it was insured and it was repaired by the Sony repair facility (Near Heathrow?)
They had to get a ‘card’ from Japan which took a couple of weeks in all, but all has been well since then (Touch wood)

I have always thought that the 4 pin connections are rather fragile compared to the more robust 6 pin connections, bearing in mind the frequency this connection is plugged-in and unplugged.

I also leave the Firewire cable plugged into the P.C, but I sometimes wonder if the impractical alternative of leaving the cable attached to the camera would avoid such problems!

Originally Posted by John103175

Thank you, I like the idea of leaving the firewire cable plugged in at the back of the computer. I am still interested in anyone has had their camcorder firewire wrecked.

Hi,

I had to have the firewire interface in my Sony HD Camcorder replaced within a few weeks of purchase, thank goodness for warranties. I now leave the cable connected to the PC permanently and plug/unplug the camcorder as required (with PC running). I have had no further problems since adopting this policy (almost a year now).

Tony

[senu]

Perhaps this should be standard advice

It certainly doesn't seem to cause any problems

This peculiar rare but real firewire thing appears to be a Sony thing and affected a "batch" over a certain period. Unfortunately Sony will not make it public if this is the case

[John103175]

I totally feel the same way. I have paid for a Firewire repair to my camera once, and am now needing to again repair the same camcorder. I also need to repair my 'Old Faithful' camcorder. OK, maybe, I have ruined the firewire connection on 2 cameras, because I was not connecting the cameras correctly to my PC, BUT isn't it time this was highlighted in the Camcorder world?

[JefUK]

Connecting a PC to a camcorder can certainly knock out a Firewire port. See technical paper on the subject here:-

http://www.newarkvideoservices.co.uk...394article.pdf

[redsox_mark]

Interesting... and scary!

[John103175]

JefUK, Many thanks for that, I do believe in future I may just power down everything , connect everything, then power up again. Including power suplies...

[JefUK]

It appears that damaged Firewire ports on cameras is really quite frequent, and it pays to follow the advice in the paper. I still have the original Panasonic NV-DS1EN camcorder and fortunately have never had the problem, however I always connect in a powered-off state, and frequently transfer with the camcorder running on battery.

I have 2 friends who have damaged their camcorder ports, and one of them is actually being repaired by the author of the paper as I write. The repairer seems to make a good living from burnt out firewire ports, and on most cameras can now replace the chip only, but even so the cost will be well over £100. A very expensive mistake!

Hi guys - am new to this forum

I read all your comments with interest/horror

I've got two Sony Camcorders: a dinosaur DCRPC100e and a more recent DCR HC37e.
My video editing software is also probably now a dinosaur (Adobe Premiere Elements. Version 1.0 ... ahem)

I had no probs with my PC100e and the Premiere elements and I never paid much attention as to how I connected it up.

But then I didnt use the editing software for about 6 months. When I plugged it into my PC firewire port recently the PC didnt recognise it. When I plugged it into my Firewire/i-link on my DVD HDD recorder (also a Sony) it didnt recognise it. Any my wife's laptop didnt find it either.

So I thought my PC100 firewire/i-link had basically failed through old age/wear and tear. Hence the recent purchase of the brand new HC37e...

But that didnt work either. Not on the PC, not on the DVD/HDD, not on the wife's laptop, not with windows moviemaker. nothing. None of that hardware recognised it and all I got was "device offline" type messages.

I ran all the checks on the PC (uninstalling firewire device managers etc...) but no improvement.

Reading your very helpful thread, it seems I may have somehow "fried" the firewire link on BOTH camcorders ??? Simply by not following the correct sequence of plug and power ?

I never knew that Firewire had enough power/voltage to cause such damage, and on my reading of the manual, it doesnt really flag up the risk of getting the connection sequence wrong...

My questions are:

1. Does my story suggest a blown firewire port on the camcorders ? are the "device not found" messages typical of this problem, or would you expect to see some distorted images and sound coming through ?

2. how can I check for sure whether my firewire/i-link port on the HC37 is truly blown ? Apart from getting all these "device not found" messages, is there any sure way of ascertaining whether it is dead ?

3. The HC37 is only 2 weeks old. Will the Sony warranty cover a "blown" firewire port ?

Thanks

(Sorry if my tech speak isnt up to the usual standard of the forum. Like I said, I'm a novice...)

[jaymac]

before anything else Andrew is your sound card working? at the moment some are getting problems with that after windows updates. Although when I had this problem windows movie maker was clever enough to tell me it was the sound card unlike adobe whichjust said device offline.

I havent checked the soundcard (err... dont actually know how to!) but when I tried it on my Wife's laptop I also tried windows movie maker and I didnt get any message about soundcards on that one...

Also when I checked the firewire host controller thing on Device Manager, none of the other hardware devices were showing any yellow exclamation marks.

Someone told me I needed to install the latest version of DirectX, which I did.

Having read the article posted below, I fear I may have fried the firewire IC on my camcorders by not connecting it correctly...

[jaymac]

probably so just trying to throw a glimmer of hope.Checking soundcard right click on the speaker icon>adjust audio propertiesand if the box comes up with sound card proerties etc., then your fine .I fyou dont have the icon then stasrt>control panel>sound and audio devices . Before anyone says just simply play a cd etc., I could still play music in Audition despite the pc saying no audio .Incidentally although I got no device in premier elements or Premiere pro or window movie maker Magix movie edit would capture no problem .can you not import from dvd in the interim period

Thanks for your interest and help, Jaymac.

I cant import from DVD as my camcorders are both miniDV cameras, and my DVD recorder isnt picking up the firewire/i-link signal either...

I will try Magix movie - thanks for the tip

Meanwhile, I have sent the new camcorder back to the supplier (Amazon) for a replacement, as its only a couple of weeks old. When I get the replacement one, I will be extra careful as to how I connect it to my PC. In fact, I think I will prepare a pilot-style checklist of the correct sequence to follow so as not to damage the circuitry !

I will keep you posted as to how I get on...

[John103175]

Dear All, This Firewire PROBLEM bothers me. We all buy cameras, and expect them to be 'All Singing..All Dancing' we all have become used to using computers. We have become used to Plug and Play. It seems to me there is an UNIVERSAL problem with 'Fried Firewire Ports' This appears to me that it is being kept a secret by Major Manufacturers....I wish I had a monopoly in repairing damaged Firewire Ports!!!! I wouldn't be here on AVF, I'd be sunning my !!!! somewhere!!! Question....Can we obtain the facts from major manufacturers, get the problems resolved, or should we keep sending our cameras back for repair? At the moment, I refuse to repair my camera AGAIN...and am reluctant to replace it....I don't suppose AVF can suggest a decent Artist Sketch Course to attend? I am 'Well Bothered'
JOHN103175

[jaymac]

Sorry Andrew I mistakenly got mixed up with your ref to dvd/hdd.
John whilst there is obviously a firewire issue perhaps part of the problem lies with the cable and card manufacturers.Many times on this and other forums the cheapest are suggested as being perfectly adequate and many who have spent several hundred £ on a camcorder will will quibble over a couple of quid buying cable/cards on that adviceand get the cheapest.Notwithstanding the problem should be highlighted more by camera manufacturers that well be another contributing factor

Firewire was designed from the start for hot plugging, so there's something out of spec in the systems involved in these failures. It seems that camcorder mains adapters are incompetently designed, and maybe that it is possible for the firewire signal connections to make contact before the outer shell of the connector, placing mains leakage voltages across the signal wires, potentially blowing one end or the other.

I suppose the conclusion is never to plug in your camcorder while it's connected to a powered mains adapter. Only plug in the mains adapter when the firewire devices are safely connected together. Additionally, make sure the connectors aren't damaged, and that you plug in straight, to prevent any possibility of shorting between pins.

There's some info on Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FireWire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_swapping

For the ultra cautious: shut down and unplug from the mains at both ends; connect camcorder and PC, then connect to mains and start up both ends.

[jaymac]

Ancientgeek is that not the opinions and conclusions this topics. contributors have more or less come with

Originally Posted by jaymac

Ancientgeek is that not the opinions and conclusions this topics. contributors have more or less come with

Yes; just trying to summarise in a single post.

(personally, I will continue to hot plug my firewire devices; out-of spec devices must be exterminated!)

[John103175]

Thankyou Ancient Geek, I have just picked the bones out of one of your links, and it states,

Hot Plug precautions
Although FireWire devices can be hot-plugged without powering down equipment, there have been a few reports of cameras being damaged if the pins of the FireWire port are accidentally shorted while swapping. This was especially true for some early FireWire devices. Modern FireWire devices appear to have eliminated this problem. Furthermore, FireWire 800 ensures even greater safety when hot-swapping.

Because any hot-pluggable computer device has a risk of short-circuiting, a user may wish to power off both the camcorder and computer before connecting a FireWire cable. Commercial grade equipment is less sensitive to being hot-plugged, although care should still be taken with any electronic device.

I have owned 2 cameras, as previously stated, and, in their literature, or my computers literature, this has advice has NEVER been suggested.

I just wonder if WATCHDOG would champion this cause....

OK I got news ! Good news !!

I have just received my replacement camcorder . (Amazon's returns policy cannot be faulted - I received the replacement before they had even collected my returning camcorder...!)

With quite a lot of trepidation, I plugged it (unpowered and switched off) into my DVD/HDD recorder - worked fine

Then I plugged the firewire cable into my PC (6-pin), and plugged the 4-pin plug into the camcorder ( with it again unpowered and switched off).

Then I crossed my fingers, took a long gulp of beer and switched the camcorder on...

You can imagine my relief when I heard the BING BONG noise of Windows XP recognising the camcorder !

So I can conclude that I had previously fried the IC circuitry on both my camcorders by incorrectly plugging them into my PC. I cant remember the sequence I used (cos I was unaware of the risk at that time), but I do remember having the camcorder powered up by its AC adapter. BECAUSE THE SONY LITERATURE SAID THAT BATTERY POWER ALONE MIGHT NOT BE SUFFICIENT

I agree with those of you that note that this is a hidden problem with camcorders and that there should be some sort of crusade to inform the public about this..

But thanks very much to you guys for your help. Jaymac and the newark video services advice article were particularly helpful.

I am just about to print off the correct connection sequence to prevent this ever happening again...

[jaymac]

Glad your sorted Andrew .
Ancient geek how about enlightening us all as to how one is supposed to know they have an out of spec device. Perhaps the manufacturer of al your equipment Cam,. cable and card etc.,