HDD Vs MiniDV

[londonr]

Maybe this debate has been done? But I would like to know what you think.
This is not about which technology will be around longer, or what is coming next, but more of a practical discussion.

For instance, my main concern is longevity - When I want to look back at my family in 20 years time, how will I do that if all my footage is on miniDV and I no longer have a miniDV cam?

Most people say, dump it onto DVD or hard disk now - And then in that case why not buy an HDD camcorder now?

Before you ask, I don't really do much editing, so that is not my main concern.

Your views please?

[andypandy]

"Most people say, dump it onto DVD or hard disk now - And then in that case why not buy an HDD camcorder now?"

I suppose it comes down to price at the top end of recording home movies these days. If you can afford Hi-def recorder - go for that. otherwise go for mini-dv tapes and then copy off onto a blank dvd. otherwise writing direct to hard disk, but still onto a blank dvd. So I suppose it's the same thing. The other question should be what is going to give you better pic quality - machines that write to a hard disk or to a tape. I know if you try and bypass both those types and purchase a machine that writes direct to dvd's then PQ will suffer.

[redsox_mark]

Longevity: As you said, you can copy to HDD or DVD or other removable media (Blu-Ray, etc).

why not buy an HDD camcorder now?

For many buying a HDD camcorder now is the right choice. Especially if you only want to do limited editing, HDD then really shines as you can edit out what you don't want on the camcorder itself, and avoid having to capture to a PC and edit there. Other advantages is you can shoot for hours without need to change tapes, and of course you don't need to buy tapes.

DV still has some advantages though:

- Generally better quality at a given price point. The gap is getting less, but pound for pound you'll find the best quality with DV.

- Better for editing: less compressed format; can render multiple generations without quality loss. But MPEG editing support is good these days, and if you only need one generation for your edits the quality loss is not significant.

- If you are on a long trip and fill your HDD, you are stuck (unless you travel with a PC). With DV you can just go and buy more tapes.

- Tape is a reliable format for archive, so when you shoot tape you have a "backup" instantly. (Though you will need to keep a device to play it).

[londonr]

I guess my real question is the 20 year playback question. I mainly shoot holidays and the kids, the cam is for "memories" treasured memories, something I want to be able to view in 20 years time. I want the format I use to be accessible and not degrade over 20 years! Given that, what format would you choose?

Yes I would like the best quality for the price I can get, but the above is my main concern.

[redsox_mark]

Well I'd look at it this way. Whatever backup/archive strategy you use with a HDD cam you can also use if you shot from tape (and copy to HDD), plus you can archive the tape. So the only difference is if you shoot HDD you don't have option of a tape archive.

DV tapes if stored properly should last 25+ years; it is more reliable than DVD. But as you say in 20 years if your DV camcorder breaks it may be hard to get a replacement. I'm guessing we'll still have DVD players in 20 years.

That probably doesn't help too much... the truth is long term storage is a concern whichever way you go. But if you take multiple copies you can manage it. If you go HDD, archive to DVDs but make a couple of copies. Every 5 years or so test them and maybe make an additional copy. That's a hassle, but if you have a single copy, be it tape, HDD, or DVD, there is a chance you will lose it.

[londonr]

I see your point; I guess it is also the convenience factor. I can really "dump" directly from HDD to PC or DVD, where with minidv each tape would need to be copied in real-time - If you have kids, you will know "real-time" has a whole new meaning!

I am interested in quality, but only to a point. When I stated looking to replace my busted Sony I was looking at the Canon mx 930. Is there an equivalent quality cam in HDD format?

[redsox_mark]

JVC MG-77 or Sony SR50/52 would provide roughly similar quality to the MV930, but at £400 or so (instead of £200 for the MV930). Note the SR50 is being replaced with the SR52

[andypandy]

Just to add further, I think dvd's should last between 20-100 years ! But this would depend on the dye that's used - which is organic and does eventually decay. Storage is thus also important. Not forgetting the fact most people don't handle dvd's very well, which then leads on to people cleaning them and then subsequently scratching them, etc So multiple copies are important - master (locked away in a fire safe/kept with a friend/relative) and frequent use version. We all do backups (well most of us !), but what happens if the good old house goes up in a puff of smoke ?

[redsox_mark]

Originally Posted by londonr

If you have kids, you will know "real-time" has a whole new meaning!

I do have kids...

Again I think the key is how you edit (or not). If you don't do much editing, then HDD gives you a lot of convienence and speed. For me, I generally edit, and I will spend quite a lot of hours planning and editing a production. The first thing I need to do is watch all the footage through once and make initial notes about what I want to keep and cut, how I want to approach it, etc. I do that the same time as the capture, so this doesn't add additional time (and the capture time is so small relative to the editing time).

If I want to create a DVD quickly I use my DVD recorder (connect the camcorder via DV/firewire to it). This is also real time but you can do other things at the same time.

Given that you aren't into editing much, I think HDD is probably right for you; and you can get good quality, just need to pay a bit more.

[senu]

HDDs are gennerally reliable but not 100%. This applies to HDD on the camcorder , in the PC and External HDDs.

This is not paranoia, ( I do love the idea of an HDD camcorder)

More than one backup strategy is always a good idea. In Nov 2006, 2 of my 300Gb HDDs went up in smoke with all thier Data

[londonr]

Okay, ok I admit defeat! I am just kidding, I have taken all your objective views on board, and I concur, back up is important. Given this important factor, this means I will be making multiple copies and as you say I can dump to my DVD recorder directly so maybe the quality and robustness of tape (and price per pixel) means that MiniDV probably is the option, for the next few years anyway.

Having put in the research I had decided that the MV 930 was the way to go on DV (would like the MVX 460 but a little out of my budget). Unless anyone can offer an alternative to the 930, I will purchase. Only question then is where? Purley Gadgets looks like a good reputable (and cheapest) site, that deliver to Ireland - anyone else I should consider?

Thanks for your help guys.

[redsox_mark]

Amazon? There customer service is pretty good, and they will delivery anywhere.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Canon-1210B0...&s=electronics

[londonr]

OK - last question, and it has to do with the 3 CCD question. Is 3 always better than 1 (when they are same size CCD)?

How do you rate the Panasonic NV-GS180B against the Canon 930?

Thanks again

[redsox_mark]

All being equal 3 is better than 1; but when comparing 2 camcorders they are never equal in all aspects; e.g. the 1 CCD model may have a better lens or other factors.

I'd rate the GS180 above the MV930 - and that should be expected, it costs more. The GS180 is comparable with the MVX460 in overall quality. The only thing I don't like about the GS180 is that in widescreen mode the image stabilisation isn't available. And it doesn't have a widescreen LCD.

[londonr]

Ah but would you rate the gs 180 above the MV 960?