[cj550]

I have got Pinnacle Studio 9 and want to capture, edit and burn some DVmini tapes. I'm currently capturing in DV quality and writing to DVD also in DVD quality. But i've read on some posts that .avi burning is better quality and then to compress so as to fit on a DVD- can anyone tell me what I need to do to get the best reproduction of my footage onto a 4.7gb DVD? I have to fit around 3.5 hours of footage on each DVD. thanks

[senu]

Originally Posted by cj550

I have got Pinnacle Studio 9 and want to capture, edit and burn some DVmini tapes. I'm currently capturing in DV quality and writing to DVD also in DVD quality. But i've read on some posts that .avi burning is better quality and then to compress so as to fit on a DVD- can anyone tell me what I need to do to get the best reproduction of my footage onto a 4.7gb DVD? I have to fit around 3.5 hours of footage on each DVD. thanks

The only format that a DVD video takes is mpeg2 (which is turned into a VOB : a DVD specific modified mpeg2)) by the DVD authoring software.
Mpeg2 for DVD is specific in dimensions , frame rate etc but the software will take care of that.

What was probably implied to you was to capture your camcorder footage as DV AVI ( not just any avi) for the purposes of editing , rendering the edit keeping PQ as best as possible before the final step at which a DVD is made when it is then encoded to mpeg2
As such, DVDs do not use a compressed AVI in that form, but rather as mpeg2 ( which is a different format albeit compressed and originating from DV AVI)
For universal compatibility a DVD video has to be authored to these narrow specifications. Of course for playback on the PC any compatible video file format will play.
3.5 hrs on a DVD is a fair bit and I will be surprised if PQ does not suffer somewhat as the encoding bitrate required to fit in 3.5 hrs on to a 4.7Gb disc will be on the low side.
In a commercial production ,a dual layer 8.5Gb disc would probably be used for video that long otherwise they would use 2 discs .

[cj550]

Thanks for that info. Can you give me any information on Timecode and Stripeing tapes- what are they? I already have my miniDV's done and am about to edit them- so is it too late to Stripe? thanks

[redsox_mark]

Timecode is the time counter often displayed on your camcorder screen. Starts at 00:00:00:00 (hh:mm:ss:ff). As Timecode used in capture/editing it is best to have a continuous timecode (though not neccessary... some software is better at dealing with discontinuous timecode then others).

Say you shoot 30 mins of footage... so your timecode is now 00:30:00:00. Now you eject the tape; you later put it back in. Depending on how your camcorder works it may leave a gap and start counting at 0 again. You can work around this by playing the end of the "part 1" footage and record over a second of so of that.. i.e. make sure the timecode is continueous.

Striping a tape means record the complete tape with the lens cap on before use. Generally this is not needed. The only reason you would do this is to ensure you always had a valid timecode even if you had gaps on the tape.
Stripping a tape is a hold over from the old analog tape to tape method of insert editing.

And now that you understand what it is, obviously it is too late to stripe a tape which already contains video you want to use!

[MarkE19]

A bit more info on timecode (or its full name - SMPTE time code) can be found on good old Wikipedia Here.

Mark.

[cj550]

thanks for info

[Lerche]

As cj550 was asking “can anyone tell me what I need to do to get the best reproduction of my footage onto a 4.7gb DVD?” I’m in the same boat as far as this question is concerned. I’ll capture in DV AVI, edit and then save as video file (AVI) using Ulead MediaStudio Pro 8. I then use Movie Factory 4 to author the video file and burn to DVD. If the video is less that 1hr, no problems, it will burn in best PQ. However, if the video is more than 1hr it will down grade the PQ to fit onto the disk, BUT NOT USE ALL OF THE DISK??? i.e. 1.5hrs will only use 75% of the DVD. I’ve tried all kind of settings to make it use the entire disk, but so far with no result. Is there a DVD authoring software that has a “fit to disk” button that you would recommend? Thanks

[senu]

Originally Posted by Lerche

As cj550 was asking “can anyone tell me what I need to do to get the best reproduction of my footage onto a 4.7gb DVD?” I’m in the same boat as far as this question is concerned. I’ll capture in DV AVI, edit and then save as video file (AVI) using Ulead MediaStudio Pro 8. I then use Movie Factory 4 to author the video file and burn to DVD. If the video is less that 1hr, no problems, it will burn in best PQ. However, if the video is more than 1hr it will down grade the PQ to fit onto the disk, BUT NOT USE ALL OF THE DISK??? i.e. 1.5hrs will only use 75% of the DVD. I’ve tried all kind of settings to make it use the entire disk, but so far with no result. Is there a DVD authoring software that has a “fit to disk” button that you would recommend? Thanks

The Mpeg encoding software use a constant bitrate or variable encoding bitrate to encode and end up with whatever space they use.

Set top DVD recorders have the 1 hr , 2 hr, 4 hr modes and the flexible modes . They also just use variable bit rate encoding but just vary the minimum and maximum ranges depending on mode

The DVD authoring software use simple methods to compute encoding bitrate based on the time .
Only by using thier advanced methods or custom settings can you get a 1.5 hr video to try and fill up more space than 75% of the disc.

Other space saving strategies are use of ac3 rather than PCM ( or LPCM) audio or using lower sampling audio frequencies if using PCM.

It may be that by filling up more space on the DVD you may not get an appreciable gain in PQ and risk using up some of the "overheads" that the disc authoring and writing process need, leading to an unreliable "burn"

For instance, even if you had less than one hrs worth of video it would be unwise to push the mpeg encoding rate to maximum in order to fill up the disc as this might produce a DVD that quite a few players would choke on !

If you really want explore just how much you can wring out of a 90 min video without losing much disc space, a standalone encoder like Canopus Procoder Express ( being with drawn) or Canopus Procoder 2 which has lots of settings to tweak is more suitable than a DVD authoring application

In addition to MF5 I also use MovieWorkshop2 ( amongst others) , seldom bother with its advanced settings but sometimes when I do, I get a warning of potential disc incompatibility and just leave well alone

[redsox_mark]

I find the "fit to disc" calculations are often too conservative.

I use a bitrate calculator
http://www.videohelp.com/calc.htm
and render to MPEG2 in my editing program (for me, Sony Vegas), manually selecting the bitrate and adding a bit of "buffer". Then the authoring package (I use DVD architect) doesn't need to re-encode. You may also be able to use a avi as you are now and set the rate manually in the authoring app (not sure if you can do that in Movie Factory or not).

So for a 1.5 hour production, assuming ac3 audio, a bitrate of around 6500 kpbs will max out the disc.

[senu]

Originally Posted by redsox_mark

I find the "fit to disc" calculations are often too conservative.
................
............You may also be able to use a avi as you are now and set the rate manually in the authoring app (not sure if you can do that in Movie Factory or not).
...............
.

Makes sense although I encountered potential error warnings in the past with Movie Workshop and stopped bothering

You can set the bitrates and choice of audio manually within MF5 but it is so well hidden you have to look for it within a sub menu.

I no longer have MF4 on my system but if Lerche cant find it I can email a few helpful screenshots from MF5

Also it calculates 4.38Gb as max allowable data on a 4.7Gb disc : do you know why?

[Lerche]

Thanks to both Senu and Redsox Mark.

I’ve just checked MF4 and it will allow you to change the bit rate manually, which is good news. I’ve also downloaded the bit rate calculator, so will give it a try at my next project. Anyway, call me stupid, but I’ve always saved my edited work as avi, which takes time to render, then used MF4 to author which also takes time to render.
So am I right in thinking that saving my work as mpeg2 rather than avi, would skip one session of rendering?

[redsox_mark]

Originally Posted by senu

Also it calculates 4.38Gb as max allowable data on a 4.7Gb disc : do you know why?

Yes - it's base ten GB vs. real GB. A "4.7 GB" disc has 4,700,000,000 Bytes. I.e. Disc manufactures (same for HDD) say a GB is 1,000,000,000 Bytes, as it makes for a bigger number.
But to Windows, a GB is 1,073,741,824 bytes (2 to the power 30, or 1024 to the power 3).

Windows always shows the "real" GB size. Authoring apps can show either.

Originally Posted by Lerche

I’ve always saved my edited work as avi, which takes time to render, then used MF4 to author which also takes time to render.
So am I right in thinking that saving my work as mpeg2 rather than avi, would skip one session of rendering?

Yes, that's right... you can do just one render to mpeg2 (unless you want the avi for some other reason). It can also save you time in the authoring stage, depending on how clever your authoring software is. Often if you just change something in your menu, it will still have to re-render the video file if it is .avi... not the case if it is already mpeg2.

[senu]

Originally Posted by Lerche

Thanks to both Senu and Redsox Mark.

I’ve just checked MF4 and it will allow you to change the bit rate manually, which is good news. I’ve also downloaded the bit rate calculator, so will give it a try at my next project. Anyway, call me stupid, but I’ve always saved my edited work as avi, which takes time to render, then used MF4 to author which also takes time to render.
So am I right in thinking that saving my work as mpeg2 rather than avi, would skip one session of rendering?

Mark is right in that MF does not tend to reencode DVD compliant mpeg2 files by default, as such I make mpeg2 files from various sources then simply use them in it to make a DVD compilation .
Unless you make a motion menu say with music it is pretty quick. Even if you do it doesn't take ages. MF5 is actually faster.

My point though is that the Ulead has the Ulead "mpeg now" encoder which may be faster and better ( or not) than your Pinnacle one so some experimenting is called for. I haven't noticed any difference but TBH I use Pinnacle Studio a lot less these days (retaining it mainlly for the kids and to keep familiar with it in order to rescue those whose workstations have it at work when they get stuck)

There is a caveat though:
Im not sure of your experience with Pinnacle Studio suffice to say it is stable making AVIs , a bit more temperamental making mpegs and definitely very temperamental burning DVDs. So using your AVIs as youve been may not nessesarily be a bad thing apart from it being a time consuming 2 step process to DVD and space taken up. Experiment with a short project and see how you go
HTH

[Lerche]

Thanks again Mark and Senu, you have been a great help. I’ll be saving hours of “watching paint dry” by only having to render the video once. Senu, I’m not sure if your last post was for me, but since you quote me, I expect it was. I use Ulead MediaStudio Pro 8 as my video editor and not Pinnacle. In respect of stability, this is absolutely rock solid. MediaStudio Pro 7 was a little unstable and I quickly learned to click the save button every 5 min or so. Since I upgraded to version 8 I’ve never had any problems with stability, but out of habit I’m still keep pressing the save button. I’ll probably upgrade to Movie Factory 5, now you have mentioned that it’s faster.

Have a good week-end.

[senu]

Thanx the post was for you but the OP uses Pinnacle hence the confusion

MF5 is faster but I'm not sure it is a real upgrade to 4 apart from the support for HD DVD and BD , neither of which is upon us yet.
I was "shamed" into part paying for it having enjoyed free bees for years
I do have Ver 4 on another system and have been too lazy to replace it with 5!

There is a 5 plus version which is like MF4s disc maker edition.

Certainly, you can download the trial for test or just get the non plus version ( which has a downloadable SP1 )for £20 odd!

To reinforce your post, Save your mpegs and save time and space