DV Tape to Hard Drive Transfer Problems

sachin · 20-11-2006, 12:09 PM

Hi all,

I have a Panasonic NVGS 250 and I'm having some trouble using it to copy a DV tape to my external hard drive. All I want to do is copy the whole tape to the disk.

I have MotionDV Studio and was able to produce small clips with it (I wasn't able to figure out how to copy the whole disk to the hard drive - I don't think batch copy worked right for me).

The small clips however were very jittery and there was no sound.

As a result I decided to use Windows Movie Maker which turned out to be much easier to use. I was able to produce small clips with it and the picture quality was brilliant and it had sound. Only problem is that the sound was a little bit jittery.

There is an additional problem as well. When I tried to copy the entire video with WMM it stopped at 47 minutes and said that the camcorder had stopped responding. It didn't create a video file of the 47 minutes it did read from the tape (I think WMM creates the video at the end of the process if all goes well). The reason why it stopped at 47 minutes is because this tape is a little weird. I don't know what I've done but although it is an hour long tape, after 47 minutes, the camcorder claims that there are no minutes left on the tape. However, there is another 13 or so minutes of footage on the tape after that. I don't know what I've done to confuse the camcorder/tape into thinking!

Anyway, here's a summary of my problems:

1. How do I copy the whole tape to disk with MotionDV?
2. How do I get sound when copying with MotionDV?
3. How do I avoid jittery video when copying with MotionDV?
4. How do I avoid jittery sound with Windows Movie Maker?
5. How do I sort out the 47 minute problem?
6. Any other general solutions?

PS. I'm using USB2 to do the transfer

Thanks

Sachin

mmace · 20-11-2006, 12:17 PM

your thread title is very confusing and the wrong people may look in so you may think about changing it to get better help

I looked in thinking you were trying to upscale standard def video to hi def resolution

HD stands for High Definition
HDD is hard disk drive

sachin · 20-11-2006, 1:56 PM

Sorry mate. Will pay more attention to detail next time.

redsox_mark · 20-11-2006, 2:02 PM

I'm using USB2 to do the transfer

Are you saying the camcorder is connected to the PC via USB2? If so, I'm suprised it worked as well as it did. You need to connect the camcorder to the PC via Firewire. (It should be OK for the external drive to be connected via USB2).

The 47 minute thing could be due to a gap in the tape, break in the timecode. (If you have a blank section, maybe you ejected the tape at some point and left a gap).

I'm not familiar with MotionDV to say why that is worse than WMM.

If you are using Firewire already and still seeing problems, try capturing to a local HDD. That will clarify if the problem is specific to the external drive. Whilst a USB2 external drive should be fast enough (and I regularly use one successfully), sometimes this is a problem. USB2 is fast enough, but has impact on the CPU and is "bursty", so sometimes it can't keep up.

**senu** · 20-11-2006, 2:17 PM

Motion DV comes with Panasonic camcorders
It uses USB for transfer from camcorder to PC
My advice would be to take a deep breath
And use Firewire to transfer to Pc from camcorder instead. If Motion DV cannot use the firewire aquired files ( no reason it shouldnt), then use something else.
You might find all your problems solved with that one move. I had Motion DV ( Came with thre MX 500B camcorder) but never used it as I felt it was too Panasonic specific ( I had other camcorders too) and I also had better DV capturing , editing and DVDa authoring software. I just had a cusory look at it then uninstalled it

It is quite Ok to use usb 2 with an external drive as the Storage device after capturing to the PC( without prejudice to what Mark has said about working your cpu hard!)
HTH

sachin · 20-11-2006, 2:18 PM

Thanks Mark,

I have problems with my firewire ports but I guess that's for another forum.

**senu** · 20-11-2006, 2:27 PM

I think youll need to get those firewire ports fixed to get any real joy with video transfer from camcorder, especially as you wont then be tied to MotionDV

Marks post ( and mine) in this thread touch on that a bit

sachin · 20-11-2006, 2:29 PM

Hi Senu,

Well the entire reason I bought an external hard drive was because my internal hard drive was too small to transfer from the tape to (I have a 30GB hard drive with barely 9GB free). The external one is connected via USB to the computer and I'm attempting to copy the data stright from the tape to the external hard drive. The external drive has 250GB of storage and that's why I'm trying to copy directly to it.

sachin · 20-11-2006, 2:34 PM

Well I bought a PCI card from ebay which contained USB2 and firewire ports. the USB2 ports work but for some reason the firewire ones aren't getting recognised (there is a exclamation mark against them in the relavant section in the control panel). Do you think there is some way I could fix it or should I just take the card out and buy a new one?

redsox_mark · 20-11-2006, 2:34 PM

Sachin,

Given that you are using USB2 to connect the camcorder I would bet that is the problem... the external drive will probably be fine.

**senu** · 20-11-2006, 2:55 PM

It may also be a good idea ( at some point ) to get another internal HDD. I got a 300Gb yesterday for £60

(saying that, I got an ext 300Gb maxtor for sale for £65 last week

)

Even if you get the firewire replaced and get the capturing up and running, and capture to the ext HDD ok.

Unless well configured, the Software for editing will place temporary files and render files on your existing HDD ( not the external one) . This will fill it up pretty quickly

sachin · 20-11-2006, 3:08 PM

The problem with internal hard drives is that you have to know how to install them. I decided to spend some more money and go for the easy, plug and play, external option.

sachin · 20-11-2006, 3:11 PM

As for the 47 minute thing (sounds like the 45 minute claim in the infamous dossier lol). I don't understand what you mean that there could be a gap in the timecode.

Whatever the problem is is there a solution?

sachin · 20-11-2006, 3:14 PM

Just one more thing. I won't bother trying to fix the firewire ports instead I'll buy a new PCI card. Since my PC, until recently, only had USB1 and I went and bought a USB2 and firewire combo card can anyone suggest a good USB2 and firewire combo card? I know these aren't a difficult purchase to make but I got a dud last time and I don't want the stress of getting a dud again.

Cheers

redsox_mark · 20-11-2006, 3:15 PM

Sorry... here is hopefully a better answer...

Say you recorded 47 minutes, then somehow forwarded ahead, leaving a totally blank section of tape. The capturing can see this as the end of the tape (as there is no information on it). If that is the case the solution would be to go back to the point right before the gap and tape something (anything) over the gap.

sachin · 20-11-2006, 3:24 PM

Thanks for the clarification Mark. Only problem is: I have this situation:

<start><recorded section 1><blank section><recorded section 2><end>

Is there a danger that if I try to record from the start of <blank section> to the end of <blank section> would there not be the chance that I might end up recording into <recorded section 2>. Also, I'm not sure how to tell where the start and end of <blank section> are.

Is this a common problem by the way? You'd think they would be able to handle this sort of problem either in the camcorder end of in the tape itself somehow.

Also, I'm using Sony Premium tapes but I'm sure I read somewhere that there are better quality tapes available. Like what's better than Premium? Like extra virgin olive oil I guess. It couldn't be the tape could it?

**senu** · 20-11-2006, 3:30 PM

Mark ,
Im guessing you refer to the break in time code

This will be a problem with firewire as well but it doesnt explain the stuttering video and poor audio problems as well as the USB capture issue seems to.

If you capture via usb from the camcorder to PC and then back to external HDD via usb Im certain that may impact on capture quality.

Internal HDDs are not hard to put in a PC ( mostly) , Surely you can try yourself( when the time comes) or grab a pal.. a can of beer and packet of crisps should suffice for a bribe

sachin · 20-11-2006, 3:33 PM

Ignore this particular message. oops

redsox_mark · 20-11-2006, 3:34 PM

Yes.. I was thinking a break in time code could stop the capture at 47 mins (not the other issues).

Sachin, when you play the tape on the camcorder (not capturing) - after 47 mins what happens? Does it physically stop moving the tape? If so something is wrong with the tape I think. But if the tape keeps moving (but is blank screen), let it play... does it eventually get to the pictures on the end of the tape? If so you can manually time that blank section and record over it... you might tape over a second or 2 but you should be able to get it fairly accurate.

Sony Premium tapes are generally very good.

**senu** · 20-11-2006, 3:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sachin

Thanks for the clarification Mark. Only problem is: I have this situation:

<start><recorded section 1><blank section><recorded section 2><end>

Is there a danger that if I try to record from the start of <blank section> to the end of <blank section> would there not be the chance that I might end up recording into <recorded section 2>. Also, I'm not sure how to tell where the start and end of <blank section> are.

You are best recording a blank video on the blank section ( eg with the camcorders cap on) rather than moving the tape foward with ff.

Quote:

Is this a common problem by the way? You'd think they would be able to handle this sort of problem either in the camcorder end of in the tape itself somehow.

Yes it is as the continuous time code is used to identify start and end times of recorded section

Quote:

Also, I'm using Sony Premium tapes but I'm sure I read somewhere that there are better quality tapes available. Like what's better than Premium? Like extra virgin olive oil I guess. It couldn't be the tape could it?

Probably not,
I use the tapes and find them very good. You may spend more and not get anything extra in terms of quality

PS: I was posting the same time as Mark ( happens .. from time to time

)

sachin · 20-11-2006, 3:36 PM

Well as well as being terrible at hardware installations i'm also rubbish at DIY and unfortunately I have plenty of both things to do and so I'm always asking friends and family for help. One day their patience might run out

sachin · 20-11-2006, 3:41 PM

Hi Mark,

Well what happens is that as soon as I get to about 47 minutes the camcorder's minutes remaining flash indictating that there is no time left (0hr0min0sec0msec) but the tape continues moving and the camera happily shows the footage on the tape after the 47 minutes.

redsox_mark · 20-11-2006, 3:46 PM

Right - then I think all you can do is use a watch or timer to measure how long the gap is before the picture comes back... add a second or 2 of "buffer"... position the tape just before the gap, and record a section for that amount of time, slightly overlapping with "part 2" of the tape.

redsox_mark · 20-11-2006, 3:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by senu

PS: I was posting the same time as Mark ( happens .. from time to time

)

Yes it does...

luckily our posts usually don't conflict eachother...

sachin · 20-11-2006, 3:52 PM

Thanks for all the help Senu and Mark,

I will try to implement all the suggestions and will let you know how I get on.

sachin · 20-11-2006, 11:20 PM

Hi guys,

There was a yellow asterisk next to my 1394 Net adapter in devise manger so I uninstalled the 1394 host controller and the 1394 net adapter from devise manager restarted my computer. The result was that they were automatically reinstalled and now they appear in device manager with no yellow asterisk. However, my attempt at connecting my camcorder to the PC via firewire has failed which leads me to these conclusions:

either:

a) the firewire cable is faulty
b) my PC's firewire port is faulty
c) the camcorder's firewire port is faulty

Here's what I'm going to do about them:

a) I only have the one firewire cable and have no other cable to test with so I have just ordered another one and will test with that when it arrives
b) I have no other firewire devise that I know of to test that but my next step will be to buy a new firewire/USB2 PCI card
c) I have no idea how to test this

Any comments regarding this would be most welcome

Sachin

**senu** · 21-11-2006, 12:43 AM

If you have a friend with a firewire enabled PC / laptop you can eliminate the camera and cable in one go: just plug & play no drivers required ( esp inWind 2000/ XP)
Just make sure that in addition you look at your camcorders menu to see if it is possible to enable av out to DV ( ie enable DV out) and if so ensure that it is enabled

sachin · 21-11-2006, 10:30 AM

Aside from MotionDV studio and Windows Movie Maker does anyone know of a good video transfer/editing software that accepts firewire connected camcorders?

**senu** · 21-11-2006, 10:51 AM

Just about everything else!

Start here

This freebee for capture alone

And programs like this if you just want to capture and burn to DVD with minimal editing

Less well mentioned ones are Serif MoviePlus5 and Magix , otherwise a simple search will give you a small shortlist: if you want speific info on a particular one then simply post the query

MarkE19 · 21-11-2006, 5:58 PM

I assume that you are running Windows XP with SP2. If so then there is a chance that you have a known problem that requires you to edit the registry in Windows. Full info on what you need to do can be found in This thread.

Mark.