Sony HDR-SR1 (AVCHD) review

redsox_mark · 30-10-2006, 10:31 AM

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content...der-Review.htm

"This is one decked out device. As with the HDR-UX1, we have some reservations about this first generation of AVCHD (centering on the fact that no 3rd party support is yet available for editing), but overall, we think this is one of the top camcorders of the year. "

Main concern is the current lack of editing support, though I'm sure that will change.

anorax25 · 31-10-2006, 7:06 AM

My beloved bought me one of these for my birthday ( which was nice ). I've had a few 'issues'.

No one in the Sony shop told me that AVCHD was currently un-editable but hey, I can wait a bit until software vendors include AVCHD support.
However, the supplied software doesn't work properly either. Nice little interface so that you can backup the .m2ts files to your computer but, if you try to view the files in the browser it returns an error of "Cannot open file - Unrecognised file format". Now that's a bummer.

O.K. I thought, I'll create an AVCHD DVD and watch it using the supplied AVCHD Player. That doesn't work either.

So the next step was to watch the Hi-def video directly from the SR1 into my Hitachi Plasma ( 1024 x 1024 ) using the HDMI lead Sony were kind enough to sell me at cost ( £20 ). Lovely picture but, it's only 720p not 1080i and does not fill the whole screen ( the picture's not even in the centre of the screen but off to the left ). Tried everything but no change.

Thought I would then try component - Ah....success. Excellent picture and fills the whole screen.

Now I've shot at all available HD resolutions ( not bothered with SD - What's the point? ) and the issues persist. Could it be my 42" Plasma?

I've created a AVCHD disk which I now need to try on a Blu-ray player to see if that works.

I have to confess, I am disappointed that an outfit as large as Sony couldn't get their act together with the product support, prior to launching the two models.

I've tried a 3rd party MPEG player ( Elecard ) which was reputed to playback the native .m2ts files ( as long as you rename and drop the trailing 's' ) and it does work, after a fashion.....the picture is jerky and the sound corrupt.

Am I going to have to settle for converting to MPEG-2 and backing up or shall I take the camera back and complain?

Any suggestions and advice is most welcome.

best wishes,

Colin.

jomike · 31-10-2006, 8:14 AM

Seems like you need a high spec PC to play back AVCHD smoothly.
Have a browse here:
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/bbs/f164

Regards, Mike

redsox_mark · 31-10-2006, 8:39 AM

Colin,

Welcome to the "bleeding edge".

For now (assuming you want to stick with it), it seems that TMPGENC and Cyberlink PowerDVD 7 provide some editing support (info in the link Mike sent). And Blueray players are supposed to be able to play AVCHD.

Eventually there will be greater editing support. Due to the nature of the codec it is going to be hard (CPU intensive) to edit and play, so most likely you may need to use a intermediate codec. Cineform is working on updating their Connect HD, Aspect HD and Prospect HD to support this.

How are you planning to convert to MPEG-2?

anorax25 · 31-10-2006, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jomike

Seems like you need a high spec PC to play back AVCHD smoothly.
Have a browse here:
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/bbs/f164

Regards, Mike

Thanks Mike! My PC is a trifle low-spec now at 1.5GHz but I do have 1.5Gb of RAM. I have sent a test file to a chum who has a high end machine to see if he can play it with the same software.

Thanks again.

best wishes,

Col.

anorax25 · 31-10-2006, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redsox_mark

Colin,

Welcome to the "bleeding edge".

For now (assuming you want to stick with it), it seems that TMPGENC and Cyberlink PowerDVD 7 provide some editing support (info in the link Mike sent). And Blueray players are supposed to be able to play AVCHD.

Eventually there will be greater editing support. Due to the nature of the codec it is going to be hard (CPU intensive) to edit and play, so most likely you may need to use a intermediate codec. Cineform is working on updating their Connect HD, Aspect HD and Prospect HD to support this.

How are you planning to convert to MPEG-2?

Thanks Mark! Looks like a new PC is required.
So far, I've used the Sony supplied software to convert to MPEG-2 which seems adequate. I have a number of other conversion programs but, they don't, as yet, support .m2ts files.

As you imply, there is a heavy price to pay for being at 'the edge'.

Thanks for your help.

best wishes,

Col.

**senu** · 01-11-2006, 4:30 PM

I worry about "exotic" formats.

I stopped recording on D8 because I wasnt confident of Sonys continued support of the hardware and format .
I feel better about HDV and the HC1 because FX1, Z1, A1 and HC3 all use the same format and the user base is that much wider

If the world doesnt see the format as having as exciting a future as Sony does it might become MicroMV ( markII)

Sony does have a habit of allowing those of its products which dont set the world alight to hang out to dry

Somebody ..........Tell me im being paranoid

redsox_mark · 01-11-2006, 4:43 PM

Senu,

Ok... you are being paranoid....

Actually your concern is valid I think.. not just about AVCHD, also HDV. With these formats and Blueray coming who knows what will have the longest life. Note Blueray and AVCHD aren't neccessarily incompatible.. but when we get to the stage where a camcorder can record to a Blueray disc, will they still use AVCHD, or another format? Who knows...

gadgets · 02-11-2006, 8:18 PM

Silly question, but how can I tell is I am getting a grey market model as compared to a proper UK model? I plan to hunt for this model this weekend over at Tottemham Court Road

redsox_mark · 02-11-2006, 8:33 PM

The HDR-SR1E is the European model... there isn't specifically a UK model. If it is an SR1E, and it comes with a UK plug on the power supply it's the UK model (unless they opened the box and switched the power cable).

gadgets · 02-11-2006, 8:49 PM

Thanks Mark. doing a froogle, I saw this http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=150053053776. The auction is over but no one won. It is tempting but very risky as it's shipped from the US.

Hopefully I will also see this at the Gadget show this weekend.

redsox_mark · 02-11-2006, 9:08 PM

Interesting, as that model is advertised as both PAL and NTSC compatible. In fact I had a look at the sellers "shop" and they have lots of worldwide PAL/NTSC models.

The European SR1E is PAL only...so this is not that model... though if it is both systems that's nice if you ever need NTSC...

gadgets · 04-11-2006, 1:08 PM

lowest price I was able to find was £860 and this was before any negotiations over at Tottemham Court Road. All the stores seem to have the SR1E model so definitely not gray market stuff. I may hold off and see if the prices will still go down further, though the impulse is very strong.... have to resist!!!

gadgets · 06-11-2006, 1:13 PM

okey, I really need to have myself committed!!! the temptation was so great that I submitted a best offer to the ebay auction and it was accepted, my offer was 49.99 less than the BuyItNow price. so I wait for it to arrive and see if: 1> I will have to take them up on their offer to refund half of the customs/tax if charged and 2> if I will be getting the SR1 or the SR1E. I have a very strong suspicion that it will be the SR1 (NTSC) model that they sold (this will not be a big issue as I have no plans of making indie movies, strictly consumer stuff).

So crossing my fingers that all goes well.

BTW redsox_mark, I saw a post of yours in the sonyhdinfo message board which alleviated my concern about getting a NTSC model in a PAL country. Many thanks.

redsox_mark · 06-11-2006, 1:39 PM

Hope it works out! Interesting that the site claims it is "NTSC/PAL compatible". As the camcorder is HD only, strictly speaking NTSC/PAL doesn't apply... but the model for the NTSC world is 60i and the one for us is 50i. If your camcorder is 60i only you'll still be able to watch it here... but maybe you'll get a model which actually does both!

gadgets · 06-11-2006, 2:35 PM

Hi Mark - I am extremely skeptical that it will be able to do both, though I would not be devastated is I am proven wrong. so the journey to the bleeding edge will soon begin

Mr.Nice.Guy · 08-11-2006, 10:30 AM

I got myself one yesterday, it is fantastic. It is my first camcorder, I always hated tape/ floppy's etc, so I just waited for this one.

I've just played with it yesterday evening but, being able to record on HD is such a breeze. I only was surprised by the load generated on my PC when playing back a Hifef movie, it sometimes peaked to 95% load on a dual core X2 4400+ AMD !!!! This is actually the first time I needed my dualcore

redsox_mark · 08-11-2006, 10:38 AM

Enjoy the camcorder!
Your post confirms that you need quite a powerful PC to play this format. What player did you use, and did you play the native format, or did you use the supplied software to convert to MPEG2?

Mr.Nice.Guy · 08-11-2006, 10:52 AM

I played the native format and used sony's playback software, hopefully somebody else will write an optimized version of this decoder because 95% is a bit too much for my taste.

meansizzler · 08-11-2006, 9:31 PM

A Camera which compress's to H.264..., not for me, seems as sony are trying to dominate the market by pushing H.264 a format that most people have trouble playing back properly let alone editing!!!, this will be just another betamax..

Mr.Nice.Guy · 09-11-2006, 9:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meansizzler

A Camera which compress's to H.264..., not for me, seems as sony are trying to dominate the market by pushing H.264 a format that most people have trouble playing back properly let alone editing!!!, this will be just another betamax..

Yes this could be another betamax, only I don;t think it will be.
HD-DVD uses H.264 as well (so it is not similar to betamax which was a completely new standard)AVCHD is another variant of that, I've read part of the standard for H.264 and I definitely think it is the way forward, they use some very clever algorithms.
I'm sure the implementation of the decoding/encoding algorithms can be vastly improved and this will hapen only it will take some time of course.

meansizzler · 09-11-2006, 9:09 PM

But you cannot edit H.264 so why did they even release the product, that's like releaseing HD-DVDs in the uk in march when the players won't be available in november....., people who will be spending this much money on a kit like this obviosuly want to edit the stuff they shoot...,

**senu** · 09-11-2006, 9:20 PM

I am not a great fan on "one company" formats no matter what they promise ...........especially if that company is Sony.
Even if other companies find the format interesting Sony has a history of very restrictive marketing ( greed really) which just kills the format when nobody bites the bait.
They then make a "marketing desicion" to abandon( or withold innovative) support and leave the various purchasers out in the cold.

I for one , would warmly welcome a "standard" HDD based Hi def standard but Im more cautiously hopeful than holding my breath

redsox_mark · 09-11-2006, 9:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meansizzler

But you cannot edit H.264 so why did they even release the product, that's like releaseing HD-DVDs in the uk in march when the players won't be available in november....., people who will be spending this much money on a kit like this obviosuly want to edit the stuff they shoot...,

Well, it seems that often the camcorders lead the way then the editing support follows. When the first HDV camcorders came out, editing support was pretty much non-existant too. Once the camcorders are out there the software will shortly follow.

**senu** · 09-11-2006, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redsox_mark

Well, it seems that often the camcorders lead the way then the editing support follows. When the first HDV camcorders came out, editing support was pretty much non-existant too. Once the camcorders are out there the software will shortly follow.

Mark that is true to an extent,
Pinnacle Liquid Edition 6 had support for JVCs variety (720p )of HDV at at launch ( having beta tested for a while) and within a few weeks had beta support for the Sony FX1, A1 and HC1 ( 1080i) then released a SP1 : 6.1 followed by the now mature ver 7. I imagine the same applied to Vegas.
Im unsure whether Sony have enlisted support for this new format seeing as even Sonys own Vegas 7 doesnt have anything for it yet:
As you say its only a matter of time but wider support depends on keen interest by a large no of companies and software manufacturers.
The JVC Everio MOD support had been linked to Cyberlink simultaneously with product launch and similarity with standard mpeg2 has made support for them reasonably wide.
MicroMV did not enjoy the same treatment
HDV support is due in part to the fact that broadcast is going in that direction . H 264 is a bit of an un known ( for now) in how much interest it will generate. If Sony isnt too proprietorial with the format they stand to gain more in hardware sales

gadgets · 10-11-2006, 6:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gadgets

Hi Mark - I am extremely skeptical that it will be able to do both, though I would not be devastated is I am proven wrong. so the journey to the bleeding edge will soon begin

I can now confirm that the camera I purchased is the SR1 model, not the SR1E and it is NTSC not PAL. Just opened the shipping box but not the actual Sony box which still has the factory seal. The camera was delivered with no additional charges for custom duty/VAT so I wonder if I will be getting a letter through the post collecting the custom duty/VAT

redsox_mark · 10-11-2006, 8:33 PM

You are safe from duty. If it was to be collected you would have had to pay on delivery.

Hope you enjoy the camcorder.

Chelski69 · 11-11-2006, 1:44 AM

They are the same camera - just like the Sr100 being exactly the same as the SR90E.

Also that auction you looked at was a Buy it now auction so they just run there term until the time finishes,

I know people who have bought from that seller - he seems pretty credible enough !

redsox_mark · 11-11-2006, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chelski69

They are the same camera - just like the Sr100 being exactly the same as the SR90E.

Also that auction you looked at was a Buy it now auction so they just run there term until the time finishes,

I know people who have bought from that seller - he seems pretty credible enough !

Exactly the same? One shoots 50i, the other 60i...

With the SR100 vs. SR90 there is an additional difference, the SR100 has AV-in.

I agree in terms of function they are the same, but not exactly the same.

fcooke · 11-11-2006, 7:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redsox_mark

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content...der-Review.htm

"This is one decked out device. As with the HDR-UX1, we have some reservations about this first generation of AVCHD (centering on the fact that no 3rd party support is yet available for editing), but overall, we think this is one of the top camcorders of the year. "

Main concern is the current lack of editing support, though I'm sure that will change.

Has anyone had the chance to compare the video of the SR1 and HC3. The excellent review had me hooked on the SR1 except for the reference to noise and the low transfer rate of 15MBs. It's no doubt WAY ahead of my PC110E, but I would have thought the whole point of spending this money would be to get the best video quality!!!

It's easy to record the HC3 onto hard disk, so I couldn't work out why the reviews were ranking the SR1 ahead???

Anyone sourced the HC3 off the US - seen the SR1 on ebay at great price .