[nizam]

Hi

I made a 2 hour .veg file after editing on vegas 6 , when try to make a DVD with DVD Architect 3 tried 4 also it showed 6.1 gig , but the actual probelm is it wont fit in to a 4.7 gig single layer disk even after i tick fit to disc it wont do it Is there any other way i can fit this in to one disk or can i split this in to two disk with the help of DVD architect version 3 or 4, if so please explain to me step by step , i am bit thick ,My mate advised me he can do this in pinnacle with out any problems also pinnacle render the same time as you edit wont take long hours of rendering like vegas does Please shed some light on this looking forward to seeing your views on this ,but i prefer sony vegas only,

Rgds

Nizam

[redsox_mark]

I know Senu has used both and can better compare the two packages.

As discussed in another thread, DVDA can make anything fit if you use the "fit to disc". I can't understand what you could be doing wrong there. When you click on fit to disc it simply changes the bit rate (if needed) to a lower one. You then need to click OK, and repeat the "prepare DVD" step. This isn't the best method quality wise as 1) DVDA needs to re-encode, and 2) it will use a lower bit rate.

The other option (as discussed) is to treat the 1st and second hour of your film as separate productions... so render video files and create the DVDs separately.

I've not used Pinnacle, but "pinnacle render the same time as you edit wont take long hours of rendering" doesn't make sense to me. Rendering is a CPU intensive process and will take time, though the speed (and quality) of the rendering/encoding can vary. The last thing you would want is for the software to be rendering while you edit... when you edit you are making a series of changes...

[jonna]

Nizam,
You could burn your project to files rather than disc and then import files into Dvdshrink (free) to reduce the size and burn to dvd.

jonna

[nizam]

Hi

As described earlier i clik on optimize DVD then click on fit to disk but message poping up saying too large to fit, use any other media , so if any other ways of fit to disk please let me know.

Rgds

Nizam

[Gavtech]

Originally Posted by redsox_mark

I've not used Pinnacle, but "pinnacle render the same time as you edit wont take long hours of rendering" doesn't make sense to me. Rendering is a CPU intensive process and will take time, though the speed (and quality) of the rendering/encoding can vary. The last thing you would want is for the software to be rendering while you edit... when you edit you are making a series of changes...

It didn't make sense to me either. Maybe his friend has a Pinnacle package that includes a hardware encoder on a card perhaps?

[redsox_mark]

Originally Posted by nizam

Hi
As described earlier i clik on optimize DVD then click on fit to disk but message poping up saying too large to fit, use any other media , so if any

Where does this message pop up?

In the "fit to disc" dialog, you are simply configuring a bit rate.. and DVDA will calculate a bit rate that will fit.

Then you need to repeat the prepare stage of the "Make DVD". It will let you prepare a folder of any size, even larger than 4.7 GB. If it is saying at this stage that it doesn't fit, then it means you don't have space on the hard drive you specified for your DVD folders.

Then you go to the burn stage. If you didn't re-do the prepare stage and tried to burn the previously prepared (too large) file then you will get an error. But if you did a new prepare which was successful then it should fit.

[senu]

While I use both software I would suggest Sticking to Vegas and learning workabouts for big projects

As suggested
1) A big project can be broken into 2 parts to preserve PQ and work the PC less hard
Or
2) A DVD folder or disc image can be made and DVD Shrink can then compress it to 4.7Gb if you must use only one disc (worth a try)
Or
3) use a Dual layer Disc

I would probably use the first option unless inpracticable.

A word ( or 3 ) on "background rendering " in Pinnacle.
Older Pinnacle Dv500 or Pro One did have hardware encoders but
Pinnacle Liquid Edition / Avid Liquid 7 do background rendering which is (as stated) CPU intensive. However they have also wriiten the software to use the GPU power( So GPU intensive too!).
The result is that not only do you get a fully rendered edit by the time you finish, you can see a full quality preview (Smart RT) whilst working. Pinnacle Studio 10 does too but it doesnt seem as well implimented as LE or maybe its software requirements are less so it is more often installed on lower spec machines
It is not "instant" but it works... very well . Where it gets in the way of work flow it can be turned off and on later when one is not doing any further editing.
It certainly saves time when one is ready to export to mpeg, AVI or whichever desired output (including DVD).
There is a "fuse sequence" option in which any segment of timeline can (after satisfactory edit) be turned in to a DV AVI and returned to a (duplicate) timelime thereby negating the need for any rendering uptill that point.

I dont often arthor DVDs from within any of these programs prefering to use Ulead MovieWorkshop2™ or lately DVD Architect3 /Architect studio3™

[redsox_mark]

Senu,

Thanks, that is interesting. As you probably know, in Vegas you can do "pre-renders" and also render to a new track.. you can also run multiple copies of Vegas at the same time, so in the example of a 2-part production you can render part 1 at the same time you edit part 2. But this background rendering you describe sounds somewhat different..

Anyway, I don't think rendering times are nizam's biggest problem...it's learning the software, and as you said probably best to stick to one and learn it.

[nizam]

hi

Thanks for all your help i will try to learn but can you explain to me step by step how can i render part 1 while i am editing part2 also how to do pre-rendering .please help

Rgds

Nizam

[redsox_mark]

Nizam,

I wouldn't worry about pre-rendering until you have the basics down. You use prerendering when you have a complex edit and the preview in Vegas isn't good enough to see the result. I hardly ever use it.

As for rendering part 1 while editing part 2: You simply run Vegas twice - so you have 2 different instances of Vegas running. Let's call these 2 instances Vegas 1 and Vegas 2. In Vegas 1, you can render out part 1 of your video. In Vegas 2, you can edit part 2.

When doing this, it is advisable to lower the process priority on Vegas 1, so that your editing on Vegas 2 gets more priority and is more responsive.

[senu]

I have tried to replicate Nizams problem by deliberately chosing a 3.5Gb DVD template and trying to fit a 6.5Gb project in DVD Architect.

2 things happened

DVD architect seems to favour the temp folder in the (normally hidden) local settings folder. this can fill up and throw up error messages. The solution was to empty it but it was equally easy to create a new empty working folder elswhere and point Architect to it.
The Program did go ahead and make a DVD folder ( bigger than template size) . This can of course, be "shrunk" down with DVD shrink ( and was)

Saying this, it is just as simple enough to create a multi part project to avoid needing all that workabout.

[choddo2006]

The only thing Pinnacle renders as you go along is transitions & filters. It still takes ages to re-encode the whole movie afterwards.

[senu]

Originally Posted by choddo2006

The only thing Pinnacle renders as you go along is transitions & filters. It still takes ages to re-encode the whole movie afterwards.

It is only transitions and filters , effects ( and trimmed footage on the timeline) that need rendering, not intact video.

Rendering and encoding are different processes even though they are often made to appear seamless by software.

A bit more detail to clear the air:

"Pinnacle" seems to be loosely used here Studio is only one ( and the "baby" ) of thier products.
Up till being bought by AVID, Liquid 7 was Pinnacle Liquid Edition 6.1. Avid 7 is an upgraded LE6.1


Background rendering is obviously better implemented in Liquid, as any action (including complex 2d/3d keyframed effects ) performed during editing is rendered "on the fly".
It does use a bit of CPU and GPU power but it works very well.
While its' happening you can tell if you will get 25 fps timeline preview or less.
If you get 25fps you can carry on working

This may not happen quite as well in Studio 10 (which uses part of Liquids software "engine") to do what it calls "Intelligent rendering" though the principle is similar

Encoding to mpeg can only happen after the edit has finished. This commits the editing and any further editing is not expected on that particular outputted video file.
Reencoding only happens if you used mpeg in the first place, or the timeline has video from various formats needing to be intergrated to form one outputted format.

If for instance you "fuse sequence" from DV AVI material in Liquid (6.1 ) or export as AVI in ver 7 ( in which case you are keeping the edit as AVI) it is amazingly quick to export as no encoding and no further rendering needs to be done.
It just "compiles" it and combines the video and audio track . It is also faster to produce an elementary stream mpeg where the audio and video are separated

If you find Pinnacle Studios encoding slow, you can export as an AVI in "make movie" and use a faster external encoder like Canopus Procoder Express to make an mpeg ( or whatever video format you want the video to be).
You may find yourself prefering its better encoding quality too.

In the past I did that a lot when Studio would crash during "make movie": Studio crashed less often when making an AVI as opposed to mpeg.

The disadvantage of that is that If you wish to use its DVD authoring later , it may still reencode. This will not happen with say Ulead MovieFactory if it is satisfied that the mpegs are DVD compliant.