[vwgolfman]

Hi I was wondering if you have an MG505 whether you could answer a few questions please?

As per my thread HERE you can see that I am wanting to record my golf swing and be able to play it back in the viewfinder (on the LCD screen) and pause, slow-mo, frame advance it etc.

I shall need high speed recording/fast shutter speed as we can be talking in the region of 115mph for the head speed of a golf club.

I have video software for my PC (in order to view the data after uploading it) which will enable me to do the above but I really need to be able to view the video raw on the camera also.

I see the camera has USB2.0
Does this do as good a job as Firewire?

Many thanks for any help on this matter.

Graham

[redsox_mark]

I don't have a MG505 but I can answer the question...

In this context, yes - USB2.0 is as good as Firewire. With a HDD camcorder like the MG505, uploading to the PC is simply copying files from one file system to the other. There is a theoretical argument about which is "better" - Firewire is 400 Mbps, USB2 is 480... but Firewire speed is more constant so may actually be faster.. but it doesn't matter - it will do a copy of your files digitally wihout any loss.

The area where Firewire is essential is in capturing DV footage from tape... for HDD and DVD cams USB is fine and is generally what is used.

[vwgolfman]

Mark, I have been researching this camcorder and recently I read a review claiming that the MPEG2 compression can sometimes cause stuttering when the camera is panned around rapidly.
How true could this be and do you think it would cause me problems trying to record my golf swing (very fast movements)?

Many thanks again,
Graham

[redsox_mark]

Graham,

You can get that stuttering if the MPEG encoding is done badly... usually it is when a low bitrate is used. The 505 on high quality setting shouldn't do this.

Regardless of format, you will get less smooth video with a fast shutter speed. Regardless of shutter speed, the camcorder is going to shoot 25 frames per second (50 half-frames). So normally, a camcorder will shoot at 1/50 sec shutter speed - i.e. the shutter speed matches the rate. Now if you shoot at 1/1000 sec, the individual frames will be clearer - but during that extra time that frame is repeated, once you get that next frame it may look less smooth than at a lower shutter speed. (Hope that makes sense).

[jomike]

As was pointed out in your other post, the thing you need to get good slow motion playback is a higher frame rate. This is how they do the "Super Slo Mo" in sports broadcasts. What happens is that the shutter opens and shuts more times for a given period, so capturing more frames of the action. This is not the same as as "shutter speed", which is the amount of time the shutter stays open for each frame. As Mark pointed out, standard PAL camcorders record 25 (full) frames per second fixed. The only consumer camcorders that can record at a higher frame rate, AFAIK, are the Sonys using the CMOS sensor. These are the DVD 505, HC3, SR1 and UX1 and maybe some others. These can record a burst of 3 seconds at 100 (full) frames per second. This should then give 12 seconds of stutter free slow motion play back at 25 frames per second. This is IMO the ideal way to record and analyse a golf swing, if you get the timing right!

Regards. Mike

[vwgolfman]

That does make sense Mark and thanks very much for your time on this.

Are there any cameras which shoot >25 frames per second (50 half-frames) ?

Would you recommend the MG505 for the application I wish to use a camera for?

Regards,
Graham

[vwgolfman]

Thanks jomike (180!)

You guys have done a great job in filling me in on all of this.

You are correct in that I was confusing framerate with shutter speed although of course a fast shutter speed is also required otherwise fast moving objects (such as my golf club) would be blurred. I should have known better.

Will any of the cams you mention jomike, enable me to pause, slow mo play and frame advance/retract(?) with good clarity on the LCD viewfinder?
I wish to be able to analyse my swing whilst practising and before getting home.

Thanks again,
Graham

[redsox_mark]

Graham,

As Mike pointed out some of the Sony models have this super slow feature, BUT – everything I’ve read on that say the quality is poor. The problem is the other factor of bitrate. Both DV and HDV have a fixed bitrate of 25 mbps. If they are squeezing 4 times as many frames into that same bandwidth something (the quality) has to give. Someone even created a short youtube video called “Sony HDR-HC3 bad design smooth slow record”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUyFkeYAgVE

With pro broadcast kit I believe they have much higher bandwidth.

It’s really hard for me to recommend.. I’ve not tried to do such super slow-mo myself, and this is not a factor I’ve ever seen covered in any reviews. The MG505 should be able to do a good job, but I really don’t know.

[jomike]

UX1 review:
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content...der-Review.htm

DVD505 review:
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content...der-Review.htm

HC3 review:
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content...der-Review.htm

Regards, Mike

[jomike]

The reviews do mention that the slomo footage is darker, so you would need good light. The clip seems to be more concerned about the timing issue with only 3 seconds to set up. It stiil looks a lot better (smoother) than any slomo from standard footage IMO, considering the highly compressed nature of the posted clip.

Graham - why don't you go to a dealer and see if you can get your hands on any of the models you are interested in, and play around.

Regards, Mike

[redsox_mark]

Mike,

Those are all good camcorders (I especially like the HC3), and I've read those reviews.

The problem is they don't seem to have actually tested it. In the HC3 review it says:

Smooth Slow Record - Smooth Slow Record is a new feature on some Sony camcorders that enables HDR-HC3 to shoot three seconds of footage at a rate of 240 fields per second. This feature can be found in the administrative menu within the Pict. Appli. Menu. Once captured, the three second clip is converted into a twelve second file for playback, and is evidently great for golf swings, bar fights, and other fast moving situations

If you look at the discussion forums (e.g for the HC3), you'll see what while in general HC3 owners are very happy, comments on the "smooth slow record" are generally negative. If it is very good light, ideal shooting conditions then it seems OK, otherwise the quality drops too much.

Here is one such thread. It is long...
http://www.avforums.com/forums/showt...=1#post3557894


Best thing is if you could borrow one and try it. There are some HC3 owners here who could also let you know what they think of the feature.

Graham, again I love the HC3, but from all I've seen on this Smooth Slow Record I'd be nervous about you getting it mainly to use that feature.. without trying it out first.

[vwgolfman]

Again guys, thanks very much for all of your time and info.
I'll have a good read of everything as soon as I get the chance
I am working away this week so although on a PC 24/7 (so it feels like!) I'm going to be a little busier.
I wanted to let you know incase you thought I wasn't reading your replies or responding.

Cheers,
Graham

[vwgolfman]

I've looked at those SONY reviews but only their high-end cameras offer a manual shutter speed control.

Let's say for example, I am out in beautiful sunlight. The automatic shutter speed is going to select something completely inadequate to record an extremely fast moving object such as the head of my golf club.

One would assume that the HC3 in super-slow-mo mode (3 second burst jobby) would shorten the shutter speed for the burst. But who knows?

Graham

[redsox_mark]

The Sony cams generally have a "sports" setting which will select a "faster" shutter speed.. but it isn't full manual control.