Digitising/editing VHS - what camcorder?

[digides]

I have a collection of VHS tapes with family footage on that I want to digitise/edit and record to DVD so we can view them.

I am also buying a camcorder which can, if I get the right one, do the job?? My plan is to output analogue from my VCR by playing the tapes and record it as a digital signal on my camcorder (as mini DV/DVD or HDD depending on the format of the camera I get).

Is my plan flawed!?

I assume I need a camcorder with AV in to do this? They are becoming more scarce, I have found. Any recomendations?

If I abandon this plan and buy a camcorder with no AV in is there another way of digitising my VHS tapes? I have a PC with lots of disc space and RAM which could be used if I knew how! Unfortunately, all of the original mini analogue tapes from my old camcorder have been wiped.

[redsox_mark]

Your plan is fine.. .you've got options...

Firstly, what is your budget? If you go the camcorder route, I'd recommend getting a miniDV - best quality for the money, easiest to edit. And easier to find a model with AV in.

The cheapest ones with AV in are from Canon - MV960 at £250.

As for other ways:

- You can buy a dedicated box to convert AV to DV, like this http://www.dv247.com/invt/23453/
- You can buy various PC capture cards, e.g. that capture to mpeg (I'm not so familiar with these).

[senu]

Originally Posted by digides

...I assume I need a camcorder with AV in to do this? They are becoming more scarce, I have found...

No they just cost a bit more so they tend to be scarce at the lower end of the market. But they do exist in reasonable no in the middle to higher end ( prosumer) range
Apparently there is EU legislation which classes them as video recorders which attract more import tax this also applies to DV In) though I think it ( the legislation that make it attract more tax) silly in that DV in is ussually for what is coming from the PC .

If you dont want to edit or are prepared to edit footage from DVD ( ie mpeg files), a settop DVD recorder is another way of "digitising" your VHS analogue footage.

It is a fairly painless way although the wisdom of archiving precious footage on recordable DVDs is somewhat questionable .Even so, I believe they probably last longer than VHS tapes though ( only IMHO of course)
.However you may have your views on this and for footage which is not likely to be edited, straight to DVD is one way to go.

[digides]

Thanks for the encouraging replies! I did look at one nice HDD cam (JVC MG 50 EK) but think the mini DV route advised is the sensible way to go.

I have a budget of £300 - £450 (ish!) and was looking at the 3CCD range from Panasonic (NV GS 180, 200, 280 and 300) but non have AV in! I was attracted by the promise of enhanced recording quality (but do they create huge data files?). Great claims are made for the increased quality. Will I notice on our TV? I also wanted decent audio so was looking for a cam with an external microphone input and a reasonable ability to shoot in lower light conditions. I'm not worried about digital stills as I'm happy to use my digital camera for that.

I have a DVD recorder attached to the TV/VCR (it uses -RW and RAM discs). I have transferred some VHS footage to DVD quite successfully but I find editing on the DVD recorder hard work and wanted the flexibility, and I assume enhanced features (?), of being able to edit on my PC with some decent software. Can I get data from these DVDs onto my PC in some format so as to be able to view and edit it? Currently the DVDs with footage from my VHS tapes on them will not play on the PC. Why not ...different format?

Once I've digitised my current analogue footage, I'm unlikely to do more analogue recording. Is sending them away to a company to transfer them to mini DV an economic option as well istead of the converter box? Any recommendations?

[senu]

Recording quality from VHS may not depend too much on camcorder as the VHS quality isnt great to start with

As for data files , If they go to miniDV as DV AVI. on Pc that wi be 1 hr =13G same as DV AVI as shot on a digital camcorder itself

If you mean PQ of the camcorders , the Panasonics esp 300 have a well desrved good reputation. 3CCD camcorders are typically not that low light hypr efficient but with good lighting colors tend to be brilliant.

Some Sony models about that price range are worth looking at .My personal impression is that the pannys seem to offer better value for money at each prize point even if the Sonys may score higher on absolute PQ and low light performance.

You should notice better PQ on your TV PQ of coverted footage to DVD ( by whatever method) will be the ultimate judge

You can edit the files on your DVD ( they are digital computer files after all). Do a search under "Mpeg editing"or Womble and see what i mean. Ulead Video Studio 9 and 10 amongst others also capable of editing the vob( mpeg2) files.

The Data in your DVD being unreadable on the PC may be due to not finalising the DVD-RW. Very few PCs have drives capable of reading DVD RAM

I would go the AV- in route if practicable rather than a box if only because you get your footage on tape not on HDD which can fill up rapidly
: saying that for wht its worth a good box may ultimately be inexpensive enough to cost you less
than a "pro" conversion Job You may find quotes of £5-10 per VHS tape

[digides]

Thanks for the advice on cams etc.

...so I have various things to think about before I can start editing...

1 Buy a cam with DV in or get my VHS footage written to mini DV professionally or get a converter box. Here, cost is the main thing to consider.

2 Consider if editing using my DVD recorder is enough (build title list, cut unwanted material etc).

3 If I want to add music, on screen titles, fades etc ...can I only do this on a PC using the "mpeg" editing software?

4 I have tried finalising a DVD-RW but my PC is still not able to play the footage. ...any ideas?

Is there a simple guide I can get to give me some of the basic terminolgy and techniques?

Thanks again.

[redsox_mark]

If I want to add music, on screen titles, fades etc ...can I only do this on a PC using the "mpeg" editing software?

Yes you need to do this on a PC. It can either be editing mpeg (disc from your DVD recorder), or DV (if you go the DV camcorder or DV converter route).

I have tried finalising a DVD-RW but my PC is still not able to play the footage. ...any ideas?

You might want to try a -R disc - they tend to be more compatible than -RW.

[senu]

Originally Posted by digides

Thanks for the advice on cams etc.

...so I have various things to think about before I can start editing...

Is there a simple guide I can get to give me some of the basic terminolgy and techniques?

Thanks again.

I hope your DVD recorder can use finalised DVD-R discs as suggested by Mark re: increased compatibility

Simple guide This site may help

[digides]

Thanks for the posts.

The best route for me seems to be a card for my PC. A quick look at prices suggests about £60, which includes editing software, which I want anyway. My new plan is to connect the VCR to the PC. My VCR has no s-video connector but does have a Scart connection so I am guessing some sort of converter cable is available to connect to the PC?

This route will free me up from having to have a camcorder with AV-in (although I did see a nice Canon for about £300 with AV-in!). If I wanted to save hard disc space on my PC I could, I assume, output from the PC to a DV-in on the camcorder ...but do many camcorders have these? I have a 320GB external HDD connected to my PC so have some storage space.

My DVD player does play finalised DVDs.

Converting VHS to Mini-DV professionally seems very expensive. I was quoted £25/hr!

Given this plan ...any suggestions for camcorders?

[redsox_mark]

A SCART is just a connector - so yes you can buy a cable which is SCART one end and S-video connection on the other end... but it will only work if the device on the SCART end can transmit S-video. A VHS VCR can not. So you need to use a composite video input.

What sort of card are you considering? What does it capture to? DV? MPEG2?

Yes if you get a camcorder with DV-in you can output to it.. but if you are going to output to DVD I'm not sure you need to? And HDD space shouldn't be an issue as I assume you aren't going to keep the videos there permanently. Once you've created your DVD (and/or DV tape) you could delete from the HDD.

Camcorders? One of those Panasonics (GS300 or GS280)... or Sony HC94/96.

[digides]

Thanks for the reply.

The package I looked at briefly in the shop today was a Pinnacle product, V10and I guess by the price I was given (£60) probably the basic end of the range as it had the card and editing software. I didn't get any detail about it unfortunately so I don't know if it's DV or MPEG2. The man in the shop said it would take the output from my VCR and input it into the PC but it needed s-video. I checked tonight ..and no s-video on my VCR!

...so I need to find a card that will take a composite video input? There may be one with multiple inputs, I guess but the important thing is one must be "composite video".

You are right, I am intending to store on DVD. What I intend to do is keep the original VHS footage, keep an unedited digitised copy on DVD and copy my edited masterpiece to DVD as well for presentation!

The Panasonic NV range does look good with their 3CCD technology!

[redsox_mark]

The card is probably a "TV card" which encodes to mpeg2. These usually have composite video input (as well as S-video). I'm not so familiar with these though. For example this
http://www.mediaatlantic.com/product.php/69476/75/

Devices which capture to DV tend to be more expensive than that... like this
http://www.dv247.com/invt/23453
which would do the job and create DV... which is generally better for editing (though you can edit mpeg2).

Originally Posted by redsox_mark

A SCART is just a connector - so yes you can buy a cable which is SCART one end and S-video connection on the other end... but it will only work if the device on the SCART end can transmit S-video. A VHS VCR can not. So you need to use a composite video input.
.

Not quite correct. A S-VHS VCR has an S-Video output. It will play standard VHS tapes with output via S-Video. Since most also have timebase correction circuits, this is the best "source" for old VHS tapes. Such a VCR can be had for around £85., which depending on how you value your old VHS archive may or may not be an attractive proposition.

[senu]

Originally Posted by digides

Thanks for the posts.

The best route for me seems to be a card for my PC. A quick look at prices suggests about £60, which includes editing software, which I want anyway. My new plan is to connect the VCR to the PC. My VCR has no s-video connector but does have a Scart connection so I am guessing some sort of converter cable is available to connect to the PC?

This route will free me up from having to have a camcorder with AV-in (although I did see a nice Canon for about £300 with AV-in!). If I wanted to save hard disc space on my PC I could, I assume, output from the PC to a DV-in on the camcorder ...but do many camcorders have these? I have a 320GB external HDD connected to my PC so have some storage space.

My DVD player does play finalised DVDs.

Converting VHS to Mini-DV professionally seems very expensive. I was quoted £25/hr!

Given this plan ...any suggestions for camcorders?

I dont mean to be discouraging but something in me tells me that while there is more than one way to achieve your goal, your anticipated method will cost you ( perhaps the least), but is full of many "learning" points and potential pitfalls

Perhaps a good start is to say which card you wish to use, what file format it outputs to and then which software ( if any ) it comes with.

Far from being patronising, I would hate you to get put off if you meet with a series of annoying hiccoughs as is possible
Pinnacle has a breakout box This which would take an input from any video source ( except component) and attached to your PC via usb2.
I have the Moviebox DV ( as it was called then, similar device, very handy )

However I am reluctant to "endorse" the software itself. Studio 9.4 and 10.5 plus have worked quite well for me and is easy to use but others have not been so lucky with it ( stability issues.)

I still quite like the idea of going via DV tapes or DVD recorder but having moved on in your thought processes, I can only add to your list of options

Some of the camcorders with av- in can also be used as a "pass thru device"
In this case the VHS player "plays" into the camcoder in vcr mode Camcorder then digitises analogue footage to digital "on the fly" and sends the footage to PC as DV simultaneously without actually capturing it on tape.

Depending on capture software on the PC you can even capture on PC as mpeg2 which will save space and be ready made raw material for DVD unless editing is required

Whichever way you go try and have fun doing it
HTH

[redsox_mark]

Originally Posted by Analogue

Not quite correct. A S-VHS VCR has an S-Video output. It will play standard VHS tapes with output via S-Video. Since most also have timebase correction circuits, this is the best "source" for old VHS tapes. Such a VCR can be had for around £85., which depending on how you value your old VHS archive may or may not be an attractive proposition.

True - I was talking about VHS. But yes, getting a S-VHS VCR is an option.