Broken JVC advice on new one

CJSIMPSON · 18-06-2006, 8:45 PM

I was a week into a 2 week holiday and my jvc GR-DVL167 broke. Keeps coming up with error E03 unit in safeguard. Tried a few things to rectify but to no avail, its about four years old so don't really think its worth repairing do you?

So a new one? The quality of my JVC is adequate for what I want, its basically for filming the kids and holidays and parties etc. I have done a bit of video editing and got lots of DV tapes so would probably go down that route again. I need 1 with firewire connection and DV in to copy editited film back to save. I use it in all environments so a good all rounder is what im looking for. I am not looking at spending much around £200-£300 max really. (bit cheaper than the £600 I paid for my JVC, how times change). I do all my editing on my PC and I have a still camera for my stills so dont need that function.

I have seen the main brands do well, won't buy another JVC. I have seen the CanonMV960 and MVX450, SOny HC35 and 44, Panasonic NV-GS37EB-S. All have good and bad, can't decide. Is it worth going for a megapixel camera or not if im not using it for stills? Noticed on the sonys that the 35 has a lux level of 5 and the 44 has 7, is this a major difference? I am totally lost on which brand or model to go for, if anyone has any information it would be greatly appreciated.

redsox_mark · 19-06-2006, 6:58 AM

The extra pixels of a megapixel cam are only useful for stills. Video has a fixed resolution (of about 0.4 megapixels).

If you want DV-in, the Panasonic doesn't have it. The Sony 35 does but not the 44. There is a tradeoff there - the 44 has a "true widescreen" mode - which means widescreen with the same quality as 4:3.. while the 35 doesn't - you can shoot widescreen but will lose some quality. Part of this tradeoff squeezes a few more usable pixels in, which I think is related to the 5 vs. 7 Lux. (Which it itself won't be a huge difference, but the 35 should be better in low light).

The problem in this price range is there are always tradeoffs. If widescreen isn't important, then the Sony 35 is probably best for you. If you want widescreen and DV in, in that pricerange, then that would point to the Canon. But the Canon models tend of suffer from motor noise (see recent threads on that)... doesn't seem to effect every model, and it also depends on how sensitive your ears are if you find it an issue or not.

Mark

CJSIMPSON · 19-06-2006, 9:53 AM

Thanks for that, with the widescreen mode, I have a 42inch widescreen plasma and most people I give videos too also have widescreen TV's. Would I be better with a camera that gives me the true widescreen or what is the difference in quality on the sony 35 when shot in wide mode as opposed to the normal mode, is it noticable? Also if tv is only .4MP where is the loss of quality when camcorder is .8mp?

I really am torn, I like the idea of the sony and it seems to get really good reviews and I have seen it for £222 and canon for £250. The sony also has digital image stabiliser where has canon doesnt, is this any good or worthwhile.

Thanks.

redsox_mark · 19-06-2006, 10:30 AM

Also if tv is only .4MP where is the loss of quality when camcorder is .8mp?

This has to do with the number of "effective pixels". I can't give a detailed explanation, but your typical 800,000 pixel video camera has 400,000 (i.e. just enough) "effective pixels", and the CCD is 4:3. So with the HC35, in widescreen mode it cuts off the top and bottom, and you lose some info. The Canon, even though it is also 800,000 pixels is more optimised for widescreen and you don't lose any quality... same with the Sony HC44.

Will the difference be noticable? It won't be a huge difference, but on a 42" plasma, yes I think you could see the difference. With a large widescreen like that as your primary target, I think you want a model with "true widescreen".. in the Sony line that means the HC44 (and no DV-in), or jump to the HC46. You can get a HC46 for £308 http://www.pricerunner.co.uk/sound-a.../551099/prices

Mark

redsox_mark · 19-06-2006, 10:33 AM

Oh, and the Canon also has a (digital) image stabiliser. I think pretty much all camcorders have some type of image stabiliser, and yes this is something you want.

CJSIMPSON · 19-06-2006, 10:34 AM

I wanted to keep my budget as low as possible as I dont use it that much so out of the low priced ones the canon would be the best as it fits all my criteria. If I was going up to low £300's such as the hc46 are there any comparable models to look at and consider?

redsox_mark · 19-06-2006, 10:39 AM

Panasonic NV-GS180 is a 3 CCD cam in the low 300's bracket, but doesn't have DV-in.

If you want DV-in, and not JVC... it's pretty much Sony or Canon in the sub £400 price range.

Mark

CJSIMPSON · 19-06-2006, 11:36 AM

The more I research the more I get confused, I need DV in, widescreen, good quality in most situations and thats about ir really. I wanted to know how the quality of a canon mv960 or sony hc35 will compare to the JVC I have broke?

Please help my brains gonna burst.

redsox_mark · 19-06-2006, 11:55 AM

The overall quality of either the Canon MV960 or the Sony HC35 should be at least as good as your old JVC. Your old JVC didn't have a "true" widescreen mode either. So with either you should be OK.

Comparing the 2... the Canon has (+) true widescreen, (-) some reports of motor noise. (To me the examples of this noise was pretty minor, you may not even notice it). The Sony has the (-) of lack of true widescreen... (+) is no reports of motor noise.

It's close enough that you could take a look at them, and choose by which one seems nicest to you... also hold them, there may be a difference in how they feel... you want to be confortable holding it.

Me? With a 42" plasma I'd probably go for the Canon, for the widescreen support.

Mark

CJSIMPSON · 19-06-2006, 9:12 PM

I have just read a review of the canon mvx460 in digital video magazine and it gets a very good review overall 86% and good all round performance. If I were to go for a canon would this model be any better for what I use it for over the MV960 as cost is a priority at the moment.

CJSIMPSON · 19-06-2006, 9:14 PM

Also the JVC models get rated very well in this magazine. I was put off with my experience but maybe ive been unlucky also I can't find which ones have true widescreen recording if any. Anyone got an opinion

redsox_mark · 20-06-2006, 7:58 AM

The US site camcorderinfo.com does very detailed reviews and tests... though often the US models are called something else so you have to translate... the MVX460 is the Elura 100 in the US, the MV960 is the ZR700.

Here is a review of the "Elura 100", which comes out clearly better than the "ZR700".

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content...der-Review.htm

In fact in their "league table", the Elura 100 comes out a respectable 12th currently.... and all the models above it are more expensive.

JVC GR-D390 has a true widescreen mode, has DV in, but not AV in. There isn't a higher spec additional DV model with AV in (at least not in their current line).

CJSIMPSON · 21-06-2006, 10:01 PM

I am swaying more to the canon mvx460 and mv960 as hey have the features I require (dvin, widescreen, ease of use) has anybody had experience of the 2 and how they compare? I am only using it for video not stills so dont really need the megapixel resolution and cost is a premium but if I get a difference in quality it might be worth it. I know there are reports of noise but I also read that if you use an internal mic you always get some noise. Are there ny other models with functions I require at a good price?

CJSIMPSON · 23-06-2006, 9:55 PM

I have just been thinking I dont really need DVin as I only used it as I had a laptop and no dvd writer but I had a stand alone recorder so burned dvds that way. I now have a dvd writer so dont really need this function which widens my choice no end so its back to the drawing board now.

I am still unsure whether I need true widescreen recording or not, would be useful I think but whats the difference between the two?

Any advice on models I could go for to keep the cost down now I dont need dvin? I looked at the cheap sonys and panasonics and they look quite good any views advice/ reviews?

Thanks.

redsox_mark · 24-06-2006, 9:52 AM

The difference with "true widescreen" is keeping full quality when shooting in widescreen mode. As you have a large plasma screen I'd recommend it.

The Sony HC44 (where you started) is true widescreen, good all around performance. You can get it for £279 delivered from Dixons online, and if you quote a pricerunner discount £10 off that.
http://www.pricerunner.co.uk/sound-a.../549381/prices

Panasonic NV-GS180 is a bit more (around £330)... has 3 CCDs which helps picture quality... but in widescreen mode the image stabilization is disabled, which is a downside.