"Camcorder records straight onto DVD"???!

I have been looking at possibilities for DVD Camcorders. The advertising for these implies that one can record events onto DVD and then watch your videos on your DVD player. As someone who has already found that most DVD players are tetchy about replaying one or more formats of recordable DVD what is magic about the format used in these camcorders?

Since the only guaranteed way of "preserving" these DVD's is to download to ones PC surely DVD camcorders are dead in their starting blocks as they are probably less flexible than DV or D8 units and ceratinly an HDD camcorder is streets in front

Confused?

[redsox_mark]

There is some truth that with any recordable DVD (whether producing them on a PC, with a set top DVD recorder, or a camcorder), there can be compatability issues. Especially if poor quality media is used. And the rewritable formats like DVD-RW are less compatible than DVD-R. But with using a good quality DVD-R disc you should not have many problems. I don't think there is any evidence that DVD camcorders are any worse at compatibility than other DVD recording devices.

Mark

[Brian110507]

You can indeed take the DVD out of your camera and play it in a DVD player - don't remember many people complaining that they have had problems doing that.

The main disadvantage of DVD camcorders as far as I can see is that they record in the lower quality mpeg format rather than the high quality of DV-AVI.

you can still transfer from the DVD to your PC for editing - but editing mpegs is not generally recommended as it can cause problems.

[MarkE19]

The only real way to "preserve" the footage IMO is to record it to tape. A tape backup device for a PC is not cheap and therefore I think the best option is to record it to tape in the first place, ie use a miniDV camcorder. I also copy the edited footage back to a new DV tape to save time should I need to work from it again in the future. No DVD is good for archiving your footage as they are too easily damaged and can suffer from 'DVD rot' that can make a disc unplayable in a very short period of time. IMO even a HDD is not a viable option for archiving as they are too expensive & bulky to keep too many of and being mechanicle can easily break down.

Mark.

Many thanks to all for replies. However do not agree with Beejaycee as my experience with distributing DVD's made on my DVD recorder and my PC +/-R/RW drive to freinds and family on the best quality media says as follows:-
Around 50% of players either stand alone or PC drives will not play +/-RW and since some paly one but not the other about 80% of players are troublesome with one or the other format..
Around 30 % will not play -R and a similar but different percentage will not play +R....except that virtually all will play a +R produced on a PC +RW drive and bookmarked to DVD-ROM.

Since the camcorder will almost certainly not have the latter PC type facility I cannot see that I can shoot some footage and then expect to replay it on various DVD players.

I do go allong with MarkE19's comments however. Thinking about it he is right and the best bet is still a Mini DV camcorder.

[redsox_mark]

I'm not a fan of DVD camcorders, and I agree that miniDV is generally better for editing etc... but I don't think your experience with such very low compatibility is common. Perhaps you have a bad model.

Mark

[MarkE19]

I agree with (the other) Mark. Compatability of recordable media on just about all modern DVD players is normally very good. If you are having trouble getting discs to play then I suggest you try a different make/dye. Also burn at a lower speed helps, stick to 1x for best compatability but 4x should work well on most players. Updating the DVD authoring software (for a PC or Mac) should also help if what you are useing is not up to date.

Mark.

[Brian110507]

we burn all the School Christmas plays and Summer assemblies on to DVD using PC's - on average our return rate is about one in two hundred - and then a quick replacement solves the problem - you really need to investigate Analogue and find where your problem lays.

I repeat what I said earlier - I don't see very many (if any) posts on here from people who say that their mini DVD from their camcorder will not play - I am sure if it was as bad as you say Analogue these forums would be stacked with cries for help.

Beejaycee

You say that you are distributing copies made on a PC drive. OK what media are you using. Is it DVD+R? then as I say it is probable that your PC is bookmarking these to DVD-ROM in which case yes they will play on 90%+ DVD players as I said in my previous post. If it is DVD-R then yes this is second best and in my experience plays on around 7 /10 players so you may be lucky that your customer base is using cheapo supermarket brand DVD players. Surprisingly it is the blue chip brands that are more likely to fail.

This problem is a continuous source of discussion on other forums

My question was related to the implied universality of DVD's recorded on a camcorder .

This is now not an issue as other posts have persuaded me that DV is still the best.

[senu]

If your budget extends to it, consider buying a Camcorder that can record HD and record in that format, but edit in SD for now . The SD PQ from HD camcorders seems to simply beat the SD ones ( at a cost) Im aspiring to get the slowly vanishing sony HC1 since I have to return an FX1 Ive had on "loan" for a while.
My experience with PC sourced DVDs is that DVD-R or +R seem to be universally compatible ( or not) and most recent DVD players will play any although the "£20" supermarket ( and indeed 1 or 2 "Premium") players will still fuss over cheaper media regardless of format

[dejongj]

I have got both a DV (TRV900e) and DVD (DVD803e) Camcorder...I honesty can't say that I haven't found any compatibility problems with playing back the produced mini-DVD's......As long as they are finalised....Just as easy to unfinalise them afterwards....

I've even found that the DVD-VR format works well (so no need to finalise) in DVD recorders....

Also don't be fooled into thinking that your tapes last forever, and even if the tape does contain the content, that's no guarantee that the mechanisme on which it is stored will last.....

And editing of MPEG2 is now just as easy as it is editing DV....

Compared to a top DV camera (like the TRV900E) DVD doesn't win, but compared to some of the cheaper ones it could blow it away...Remember it is not just about the format...The quality of the lens is still very important to.....

[senu]

Originally Posted by dejongj

Also don't be fooled into thinking that your tapes last forever, and even if the tape does contain the content, that's no guarantee that the mechanisme on which it is stored will last

.....True but DVDs especially (-R and+ R) are infact gennerally very prone to surface scratches and as such are just as "delicate" as tape if not more so

And editing of MPEG2 is now just as easy as it is editing DV....

Maybe . but at present dedicated mpeg editing software seems to be very feature "lean".
Because HDV is mpeg2, they will be better featured as time goes on, The future of mpeg editing seems assured as it will be driven by the need to edit HD footage but it is not mainstream just yet.

Compared to a top DV camera (like the TRV900E) DVD doesn't win, but compared to some of the cheaper ones it could blow it away...Remember it is not just about the format...The quality of the lens is still very important to

......In addition to ccd chips and image processing circuitry

IMHO I feel most mid range MiniDV camcorders will do better than any DVD camcorder for PQ.
As an analogy, I had a Sony digital 8 (still have) Sony camcorder whose output is arguably superior to many lower MiniDV camcorders . I soon had to move on to mini DV because nobody was making "mid range" to " high end Prosumer" digital 8. With miniDv you could count on getting a superlative camcorder :eg Sony VX 2100 or Canon MX2, In the same way, This is highly unlikely to happen with DVD camcorders as the manufacturers seem to see them as a convenience rather than a seriuos tool for medium to high end prosumer users
There is obviously a market for all but if you want a stab at High quality, DVD camcorders while not nessesarily about low end are really more about convinence and instant access

[lurcher]

Originally Posted by senu

.....There is obviously a market for all but if you want a stab at High quality, DVD camcorders while not nessesarily about low end are really more about convinence and instant access

Couldn"t agree more , I have a JVC MZ50 Hard Drive Camcorder , which I just mount inside the car , switch on and leave it to record driving lessons. Access to recordings are instant via on screen thumbnail then I transfer anything needed to DVD.
Quality is very good at the highest seting but not up there with the Mini Dv camcorder I have had.
Looking at a HC1 now for normal use.

[dejongj]

I never said that DVD's aren't scratch prone, I just highlighted that tape has got weaknesses as well.

Personally I wouldn't call Premiere Pro, Avid Liquid feature lean...But hey opinions differ....

I fully agree that DVD Camcorders is not a professionals tool and I agree it never will in MPEG2 format....But don't just discount the good DVD camcorder ones, some are very good, just like their are some very bad miniDV ones....

And let's face it when things are getting compared to VX2100 or MX2 or perhaps even HC1 then a lot of miniDV camcorders wouldn't make the grade either.....

[senu]

Originally Posted by dejongj

I never said that DVD's aren't scratch prone, I just highlighted that tape has got weaknesses as well.

Personally I wouldn't call Premiere Pro, Avid Liquid feature lean...But hey opinions differ....

I fully agree that DVD Camcorders is not a professionals tool and I agree it never will in MPEG2 format....But don't just discount the good DVD camcorder ones, some are very good, just like their are some very bad miniDV ones....

And let's face it when things are getting compared to VX2100 or MX2 or perhaps even HC1 then a lot of miniDV camcorders wouldn't make the grade either.....

Point taken
I am however not anti-DVD camcorder either but feel the manufacturers seem to percieve their target market as narrow: Convenience first ,high PQ next. This then perhaps makes them pay a little less attention to PQ but as you point out there are also atrocious examples of MiniDV camcorders

Hence my example of a "compromise format was the Digital8 format which though technologically fine, Sony in its wisdom has not supported beyond entry level:
As such It was the Digital 8 and not DVD camcorders I was comparing to the "better" miniDV camcorders ,

By mpeg editors I meant the likes of Womble/Video Redo .

I use Liquid 6.1 and 7 quite freqently and know they are by no means feature "lean" but then they really are not primarily mpeg editors