[Metallo]

Hi all,

My old SONY Video 8 CCD-TR75E seems to be at the end of its life, after all, it gave me 15 years of wonderful movies and colors!

Now, I guess I'm not the only guy wishing to own a digital camcorder and a camera in one body.

Also, I'm into editing and DVD authoring, maybe my preference would go for a camcorder that can record in MPEG2, but I'm interested in reading your comments before I go and shop.

Thank you!
Alex

[MarkE19]

If you want to do anything more than basic editing on a PC then your only real choice of recording format is miniDV.
Most of the miniDV camcorders have around 1mp plus photo abilities and can store the photos on memory cards. However the performance for photos will never be as good as for a dedicated stills camera, so this will always be a compromise of convenience over quality IMO.

Mark.

[Metallo]

Mark,

Are you telling me that there are no models on the market that include, say, 3mpixels ?

IMHO there must be somebody producing high end stuff, I'll have a look around.

Thanks
Alex

[rooney]

check out my earlier posts cannon mvx4i mini dv 4mp stills

MVX4i


http://www.canon.co.uk/for_home/prod...vx4i/index.asp

[Bearded_Malc]

Have you looked at the sony HC90 or HC96 (the new version of the HC90) or the HC94 if you don't want DVin?

The HC90 has 3MP and true widescreen. It's more a camcorder that is a reasonable stills camera than a still camera that is a reasonable camcorder. I think it has to be that way around as camcorder is the more onerous spec (i.e. movies tkae more storage). In widescreen mode stills are 2MP. Of course widescreen, 16:9 is slight different to the 3:2 normal 35mml camera picture size but if you're showing your stills on a 16:9 TV anyway then 16:9 fits the full screen. Taking stills on the HC90 is a bit longer than with a stills camera due I think to there being no intermediate memory to buffer the picture while it is loaded to the card. If you want to take a quick succession of shots then take a movie instead. And of course the camera shape is camcorder rather than stills. Overall though if you are looking not to have to carry 2 cameras the HC90 doesn't do a bad job as a still camera.

[MarkE19]

photo quality on a camcorder is of no interest to me as I've got dedicated camera and camcorder to get the best possible results from the format I'm after. However there are now a few camcorders that do offer megapixel CCD's, but IMO they are still of lower quality than the photos from a dedicated stills camera as the electronics in the cam are designed for video rather than still images.

Mark.

[Metallo]

Originally Posted by rooney

check out my earlier posts cannon mvx4i mini dv 4mp stills

MVX4i


http://www.canon.co.uk/for_home/prod...vx4i/index.asp

Rooney,

Thank you for your tip.
It looks a very good suggestion to me, expecially 4mp, I am not aware, at this moment, of any other company producing such a combination.

I will investigate further.

Thank you
Alex

[senu]

Hmm...
The way Digital Still Cameras work to produce great pics and the way camcorders work to get video are sufficiently different to make any combo a compromise.
Just as there are Camcorders which can do stills from more than a few meagapixel. there are still cameras which can do vga video with sound onto their solid state card.

It is probably true that a £200 4 megapixel digital still with its ( better lens for still ) , & digital image processing will get you more satifying pics than a camcorder £600 with that many pixels for still capture.

You are better off spending that £600 as £200 for Digital still Camera and £400 for a camcorder

PS:Check out the JVC Everio range for "tapeless" camcorders which record to a mod ( a proprietary mpeg2) .They have built in HDD . Nonetheless I dont think even they excel at taking stills although you might find this news somewhat interesting

[rooney]

depend upon wether u want 2 carry 2 devices with yourelf or not

[senu]

Originally Posted by rooney

depend upon wether u want 2 carry 2 devices with yourelf or not

Very True .
When doing a video shoot for say a wedding, It is often great to do some stills as well.
Carrying 2 cameras in such situation is a PITA . In such an instance, getting good stills with the camcorder is expedient . It is for this reason that the camcorders have media card for recording stills.
It has however been shown time and time again that the Pics from such devices are often ok to enhance the video but end up needing photoshop etc work for print beyond 4"x6". Similarly, still cameras often produce video that is best viewed on the PC in a small window!

It is the dissapointment from these experiences that make one look closely at the limitations of a combined device and conclude that although somewhat irritating, 2 devices often produce best results.
You will find that the quest for best PQ ( video or stills) for the least ( more bang for buck) is the constant theme in these forums.
Combined devices ( At the current time ) do not seem to offer that best of both worlds .

PS:Your experience with the Canon MVX4i is obviously Very positive but dont forget that Canon also make really good Digital stills (eg 350D with control over all aspects of the pic taking), and say the XM2 camcorder with fantastic video output

[rooney]

i have posted 2 pics one taken with the cannon mvx4i
and the other with a kodak Z7590 5mp 10xzoom

bit shocked 2 b honest for some reason the kodak has come out really dark the flash on the cannon seems to be a lot better

a picture of my joypad the one on the left is the cannon and the one on the right is the kodak both pics taken exactly same place time and lighting conditions

a picture of my son in a dimly lit room again the one on the left is cannon and the one nearest right is kodak in this instance more or less the same

obvisly everything has had 2 b shrunk down to be posted

[senu]

Good on you m8!..
The Kodak seems to be letting the side down while your Canon is riding high. Like I said ,you are having a positive experience with the MVX4i
Looks like Mettallo may have his ideal combo now!
The rest of us will just keep logging our bags about in hope

[Metallo]

Originally Posted by rooney

i have posted 2 pics one taken with the cannon mvx4i
and the other with a kodak Z7590 5mp 10xzoom

bit shocked 2 b honest for some reason the kodak has come out really dark the flash on the cannon seems to be a lot better

a picture of my joypad the one on the left is the cannon and the one on the right is the kodak both pics taken exactly same place time and lighting conditions

a picture of my son in a dimly lit room again the one on the left is cannon and the one nearest right is kodak in this instance more or less the same

obvisly everything has had 2 b shrunk down to be posted

Rooney,

Thank you, nice shots (congratulations, beautiful son )

As far as zooming lens are concerned, what's the range with the digital photo camera of your camcorder?

Also, this looks a very nice object, different price and working concept, however...

Cheers
Alex

[senu]

Mettallo ,
Rooneys " experiment" has shown that at least in the point and shoot dept some camcorders are able : If your photography needs are relatively simple . go for it.

What is lacking is some of the control you get with a standalone camera when you feel the need to get more adventourous in your photography.
By that I mean changing iso settings, white balance, perhaps setting for portraits, landscape , macro etc. which influence your control of exposure ,colour tone, depth of field and manual focus to compensate for a struggling auto focus in low light or poor contrast situations.
Thankfully most digital camcorders of that price range will have manual adjustments such as :iris control , gain, white balance and backlight compensation for the video side of things.
There is of course nothing to stop you from starting with a decent combo and then buying a Separate Digital camera if and when your ( Photography) needs grow
Coming from Video 8 you will love the clarity of digital ( some say digital is too " sharp" compared) video on MiniDV and on the PC/ Mac :the ease of editing and minimal quality loss when the need for that arises
Good luck

[rooney]

on the verge of saying that i sleep with me new camcorder(i dont by the way) u can change shutter speed / iris speed etc etc to tech 4 me on the camera bit as well as the camcoder bit by now way am i saying this is the best camcorder camera etc

[mandm]

Like Mateelo, i am after a combi unit myself and i was referred to this post by senu - thanks.
In my experience the need for combi units arises when you are travelling or on holidays with kids. I always believed that two dedicated units are the best option but the recent holiday trip caused some mishaps (discharged batteries, leaving unit behind etc) and we realised that we just cannot ferry around two dedicated units anymore.
Having said that i will not be throwing away my dedicated digital camera but use it on special occasions when i need the best possible stills.
With the help of ever increasing quality of the camcorder stills i think one can safely assume that given time combi unit would be the way for average user but the dedicated enthusiast would always prefer the dedicated units.

[tony @ suffolk]

Like you Alex, I've moved from an old "Hi8" camcorder (which admittedly has been gathering dust for the last few years) to wanting a single unit for movies and stills. I have a couple of very good digital stills cameras, a 5 MP Canon EOS and a water-resistant 2.5 MP Olympus, both of which produce excellent photos.

After much research I've bought a Panasonic NV-GS500 Camcorder, which has a 4 MP stills facility. I've only had it for three weeks or so, but I've taken lots of photos and movies, and I'm more than pleased with the results.

Although the Canon is excellent for creative photography, you need to ask yourself exactly what types of photos you normally take, and I suspect like most of us you mostly use your camera to record family or holiday events. In which case the convenience of having a combined unit far outweighs the extra features available from a dedicated stills camera. The abilities of a camcorder to produce high quality home movie results are not compromised by having a stills facility!