Followed some great advices form you guys about buying my Cannon Dv for the charity I work for, i spoilt it by getting Pinnacle 10+ for editing.

My XP Pro.PC is at the recommended level for running this software and is stable with all other software.

However I have never seen a program crash so often or freeze.
When I finally did edit the 8 min test video it has refused to covert it to a movie and burn it to DVD. It just sit there pretending to go through the motions for as many hours as I care to leave it. (7 hours was the best I tolerate) and other then a few approx 10% indicted done it has never done a thing and only ever taken up 12% of my CPU’s power.

I have downloaded over 120Mb of patches from pinnacle “which tells you something about how ready it was to reach the shop shelves” but none of it makes any difference.

Any thoughts? Do I wait to see if they fix it because it all seems very good on paper
Or do I try to get my money back and go for something new.

I need to be able to edit my DV for the kids projects I do, they like it to look fun with plenty of wiz bangs!
I need to be able to get my very tired old brain around it and not have to spend days trying to edit. (I could use sticky tape and scissors quicker than this)
Seems to be a few bugs on Ulead products from the forums I look at but Sony’s stuff seems to be well liked?
Help.
splatty

[philipb]

Studio is very buggy.

I'm using Premiere Elements 2 and its very good.

thanks Phil is it easy to use? and how much did it cost
splatt

[senu]

Read this thread and maybe this as well
Pinnacle Studio works very well when it does and is very unreliable when it doesnt.
Dont try to get it working !

Sony Vegas Studio is also very nice to use and reliable.

Both programs (APE2 and Sony Vegas Studio) are "easy to use" once you get past the peculiarities of thier ( very different ) interfaces. Both are well featured and have a bit of a learning curve if you want to do more than just cut and paste editing ( as I expect you will!)
Thankfully there is a lot of help out there to make sure you dont get stuck

Pinnacle Studio would have been a great product in that its layout is fantastic but buggy code and consistent instability issues have dogged the last 3 releases ( 7 and 8 were unusable: 9 and 10 ok for some people)
Read more about that here
There is the much liked ( in these forums) Ulead VideoStudio 9 but I feel the Adobe and Sony products are better .
HTH
Senu

[philipb]

Agree with Senu.

APE does take some learning, but for about £50 you get virtually all of the important bits of AP itself.

[cliveg]

Hi...I feel I ought to defend Pinnacle Studio a bit here...

I have used Pinnacle Studio 7, 8 and now on 9 without any problems at all...i reckon it's a great piece of software...

Whenever I have gone to the next version, I always uninstall the previous version first...I don't go for the upgrade versions...always buy the full product. Whether this has anything to do with it, I don't know.

I have also installed the patches from Pinnacle's website as soon as they're available...again with no problems.

Maybe I'm just one of the lucky ones, but I reckon this software is great. I do quite a bit of timeline editing, adding transitions, music, voice-overs etc, and I find it so easy to use.

I have heard that a lot of people have had problems with this software, so as I said earlier, I must be one of the lucky ones.

One other point...I do keep my PC pretty much up together as far as patches, virus software etc is concerned, so that may help. ( I work in IT so I know a little about computers... )

Cheers,

Clive

[Paul Cooksley]

Clive

I think you probably are one of the "lucky ones" to some degree - certainly seems that way after reading reports on here and other web forums - as well as my own experience of Pinnacle.

I have Pinnacle Version 8.4 - basically this came free with my PC three years ago. I do use it a fair bit - and I have to say - I do very much like Pinnacle- but - my version is very "buggy" - that is to say it quite often freezes and crashes. At first I thought it was down to my pc, but no - seems to be a common problem.

As I do want to continue using Pinnacle, I really want to update to version Studio 10 Plus - but again, I am put off by reading all the negative comments about it. Shame. I think it's a brilliantly thought out and designed easy to use piece of software - it's just such a pity it seems to crash so often.

Regards

Paul

[DigiStuff]

Hi All,

As others have stated that Studio products do work on some systems. The best advice I can give is that build the best spec PC you can and then fit a removeable hard drive caddie. Have 2 x C: Drives effectively ! (2 Boot drives. Using one at a time) One just for video editing and keep it that way. Use the other boot drive for all other work. Hope this makes sense.

I have been using PC based video editing software for around 10 years now and still haven't found the perfect product!! Things change to much all the time. I wish the software makers would stop adding new features and just get the product to work in the first place !!!

Well that's my pennies worth anyway!!

Cheers

DigiStuff

[senu]

Sorry to disagree guys .
I have Studio 10+ in addition to Liquid Edition 6.1 and now Avid Liquid 7.
On another partition I have Adobe Premiere Elements 2 ( xmas present) and Sony Vegas 6 + DVD ( complimentary gift for testing).

The systems are a p4 3.0 , 1gig ram, 420g sata HDD and a Geforce fx 6200 256m ram graphics( AGP) and Amd 64 3800, 1.5g ram,300g sata and ATI Radeon 9800 ultra 256 ( both systems have dedicated video drives and Im almost obsessive in keeping them in tip top shape) ie Optimising windows with updates , defragmenting HDD etc

I have found Studio 9+ rather stable and 7 & 8 atrociously unusable.

I got Studio 7 as a "gift " ( from Pinnacle) a few years ago when I bought several Systems with the then Pinnacle Pro one card ( with Premiere 6.5)
As such , I dont have more than say 5-6 years experience with video editing stuff: Adobe Premiere 5 had given me the shivers!!
My current problem with 10+ is that it is slows the PC down and is itself slow when the project is more than 1hr long and then it doesnt seem to offer much functionality over 9+. Otherwise it is stable and easy to use
In comparison, both LE 6.1 and Avid Liquid 7 are very nippy ( on the same machines) as is Adobe Premiere Elements2. Similarly Sony Vegas 6 seems rather unfussed.
The PCs have a multi boot(3) Win Xp ( SP2) configuration and some partitions ( 2/3)are just for editing video with no antivirus etc. So they have "clean" installs of the software.
I honestly feel the good GUI and layout of Studio has won many converts to Video editing.
Sadly a very significant minority have never been able to get it to work ( properly or at all) regardlesss of PC spec. Pinnacle support is quite polite and prompt but ( to say the least) functionally clueless.
As such Studio has equally put off a large no of people from video editing for a long time ( some for ever) which is a shame. This is more annoying because they feel its thier fault as they cannot get it to work. It is of course not thier fault but that of a flaky product.
When Avid took it( Pinnacle) over and promised to use the mature Edition ( now Liquid) engine in studio I was hopeful.( Still am )

They have now posted 2 major patches ( 60 meg each) to fix it in 2 months and still not everybody is happy.
I dont think its fair to blame the end user here regarding PC specs and housekeeping : Studio is very unreliable and can be undependable and will perform well or badly regardless of PC spec. It cannot be relied on when deadlines are looming!
That said, I agree no NLE software is perfect but feel sad that Studio seems to be a lost opportunity to be a great all round NLE as its notorious reputation is unfortunately justified !
I own and use it with perhaps less grieve than many but refuse to give it an endorsment until they tidy it up.

Thanks guys
Makes me feel better to know I am not just a passed it 44 year old trying to keep up my old video habit in the 21st century. 2ok maybe i am"
Just for the record my system is.
AMD XP 2600. 1Gb Ram. Radeon 9200,128Mb. HD x2 60Gb & 160Gb.
I run the Movie files from the 160Gb which has no software on it.
XP Pro fully updated as are all the drivers.
System Defragged, and every thing else runs fine.

It may sound like Mr goody goody, but I work bloody hard in the community with young people, this sort of crap software just seems to make the long hours and extra work you do at home very frustrating.

Guess unless anyone knows a way around the refusal to convert to movie and burn a DVD I will have to get a new and more stable platform to edit with.
Having spent 18hours of a weekend editing a project I did for Princes Trust the old fashioned way “lots of cables, mixers and good old VHS” you can see why I am losing the will to live.

“Frustrated” Me!......... “you bet”
“Still” I don’t get to finish work till after 11pm tomorrow night, so maybe that will give someone time to spot this sad little plea and have a “cunning plan to solve it”
Thanks again for your input guys.
splatty
ps. yes i do shut down the other software when i use 10+/ oh! it was also only an 8min test edit to see how it worked. "or not"

It's a pain when you have problems with any software, and Pinnacle seems to have more than it's share of probs. I've used v8 and v9 for about 3 years, and am happy with it, but suspect it is purely a matter of luck and machine configuration!
Like many people who seem to have the least problems, my editing system is based on a machine with very little other stuff onboard, and no internet connection at all. It has an 80GB operating disc, 160Gb video storage disc, and 160Gb and 250Gb USB drives plugged in. I use this system for two or three hours virtually every day.
I've recently installed a system call Visual Communicator, which also works well.
If I ever have the dosh, probably unlikely, I'll upgrade to Avid Express or something like it - whatever Pinnacle do they seem to make money with, but users seem to have a consistently less than satisfactory time.

[shoehorn]

Hmm... another "fan" of Pinnacle here.
I'm on v9.4.3 and have had no problems with it at all.
Athlon 2800 with 120 C drive and 160 F drive (data only) - installed on C captured to F.

[senu]

Originally Posted by shoehorn

Hmm... another "fan" of Pinnacle here.
.

You Sir, are a rare breed! ( endangered species???)
I did say significant minority in my post.
And BTW it works for me too just that that "fan club" ( pun intended) you refer to seems to be small and shrinking

[laser]

I use both Pinnacle Studio 10 and Pinnacle Liquid 6.1

Studio 10 does crash and will make you machine sluggish whereas Liquid 6.1 is very nimble and quite quick and very rarely crashes which is somewhat strange when Liquid is a far more complex piece of software.

However....A friend recently bought a new PC which was bundled with Studio 10. After many calls complaining about performance and constant system crashes I decided to take a look at the system, which incidently is an AMD 2800+, 256MB graphics, 200GB SATA HDD and 512MB RAM (nothing cutting edge).

By carrying out a few tweaks and offering some advice the crashes have mostly ceased and the guy is now very happy with Studio 10.

This is what I did:

1. Installed latest patch
2. Switched off realtime rendering of transitions and effects (this made the biggest difference to performance)
3. Told the guy to be patient and wait a few seconds for the HDD activity to reduce rather than trying to drag loads of effects and transitions to the time line and then scrub the timeline while the software is still trying write or read data to the HDD

There three points basically cut down 95% of the system crashes. The system can still be slow rendering but is fine during editing.

However if you want powerful and nimble software I would highly recomend Sony Vegas or Pinnacle/Avid Liquid. I even use Liquid 6.1 on my laptop, occasionally, without any performance issues.

[shoehorn]

Originally Posted by laser

Told the guy to be patient and wait a few seconds for the HDD activity to reduce

I think that's it!
I must say that I always wait for my HDD activity to reduce!
When moving stuff about the timeline you can hear the HDD and see as the audio catches up - once the audio's done it's "ready"

(Endangered Pinnacle "fan")

[videoman]

Well, I am another very frustrated Studio 10 plus user. I uninstalled all my Studio 9 program and cleaned the registery and bought a new version of Studio 10 Plus, hoping this would solve all the problems. No chance, I have added the beta patches and had to uninstall them and start from the beginning again. It is a great pity, it would be a super program if it worked with decent reliabilty but I am finished with it for good now.

[senu]

Originally Posted by laser

Studio 10 does crash and will make you machine sluggish whereas Liquid 6.1 is very nimble and quite quick and very rarely crashes which is somewhat strange when Liquid is a far more complex piece of software.

.....as is Sony Vegas ,
Just reinforces my rather wordy post!.
I must say that Studio would be a fast selling, worthy NLE if its performance ( and reliablity) matched its well designed interface and user controls.

My initial Version 9 used to have regular hiccups at the "make movie" stage.

I got round this by outputting the projects as mpegs and then author DVDs in Any of the Ulead Products (MF4 MW2).

This problem got fixed in the 9.3/9.4 patch.
It however made me realise that one can live with software limitations and sometimes it takes more than one tool to do the Job.

[videoman]

It really would be useful if the people who do get Studio to work well could say what processor they are using and if they have any other programs running ie antivirus etc. I have come up through versions 8,9 & 10 plus and they have all been a nightmare on a 3g P4 machine built by Evesham Technology for the job!

[videoman]

I am going to Siren Technology to look at Avid Liquid 7 on a machine built for editing, have you any comments compared to studio 10 +

[shoehorn]

Originally Posted by videoman

It really would be useful if the people who do get Studio to work well could say what processor they are using and if they have any other programs running ie antivirus etc. I have come up through versions 8,9 & 10 plus and they have all been a nightmare on a 3g P4 machine built by Evesham Technology for the job!

I'm on v9.4.3 on XP.
Athlon 2800 with 120 C drive and 160 F drive (data only) - installed on C captured to F.
I don't turn anything off (by using end-it-all for example).
Norton anti-virus and firewall run in background.
But like I said, I do wait a while when moving things about, or starting a 'new' task.
I can hear the HDD whirring (is that a word!) as it sorts out the timeline, and you can see the audio 'appearing'.

[senu]

Originally Posted by videoman

I am going to Siren Technology to look at Avid Liquid 7 on a machine built for editing, have you any comments compared to studio 10 +

I dont think that looking at configurations of people who find studio works is helpful. I have 2 different systems : P4 3.0 1g ram HDD 240gx2 sata shuttle x (SFF) with win xp and multi boot. The other is full tower AMD 64 bit 3800 1 g ram 300g sata also multiboot win xp. I try and avoid background processes but do infact have Avid liquid 7, Pinnacle Liquid Edition 6.1 and Pinnacle studio + 9.4 on one partition , LE 6.1 and DvdWorkshop2, Photoshop cs2 on another, leaving the last one for games , casual picture editing , music and internet downloads etc..The processor, graphics cards ( geforce fx 6200, ati radeon 9800 ultra) and motherboard chipsets for either system are completely different.
On these systems,Studio 9.4 is relatively stable but more nippy than Studio 10. I can only conclude that there is an unknown factor that determines whether it works well or not!:

To answer your question regarding Liqiud. both LE 6.1 and AL 7 are quite stable and "mature" editing solutions in a different league from studio.
If you get them from a company that builds the PC from ground up for video editing it tends to be a good idea. DVC is another good well known company. There are others of course. And if brave you can ( like me) self build: not really advisable unless u love troubleshooting

The GUI is very different ( No.. totally dissimilar ) and any handholding is a whole lot less than with Studio. They also cost a bit more , have more hardware specs, and have a bit of a learning curve to get to grips with
But they are reliable and when you get to know the layout , easy to get results for simple stuff and if you want more.........

[laser]

Originally Posted by videoman

I am going to Siren Technology to look at Avid Liquid 7 on a machine built for editing, have you any comments compared to studio 10 +

Avid Liquid 7 is great. Never crashes and is very fast compared to Studio 10. The difference in performance is huge.

I even mange to run Liquid on my Centrino 1.7GHz laptop with 512MB RAM and 5400RMP 80GB if I'm out and about and fancy something to do.

Be warned though....Liquid is not something you can simply launch and start editing within half a day. The learning curve is long and hard unless you've used similar NLE software such as Premiere and the interface is radically different to studio.

I would strongly recommend you buy a Liquid book to walk you through the capture and editing process. Pinnacle's web site also have downloadable tutorial videos which are free. Very useful.

I've been learning Liquid for 3 months now and have only scratched the surface!!!

Well just to update, good old 10+ just seems to get worse the more I follow Pinnacles advice about defragging, patching, turning of other applications and standing in the garden with a copper rod on my head! “this one may relieve the pain if a thunder storm comes along!” (it now hangs even more, or has reservations about even bothering to start up, I can only dream of getting it to make a movie and burn a DVD) still the MP files run ok in Win Med Player just seem to have my added jpeg pictures missing.
So I contacted good old Ebuyer and they tell me that the many hours of trying to sort it out have cost me my 30 day send back! And now I have to send it back for them to check “my guess is they will find it all just perfect” so looks like my self and the charity I work for are going to be out of pocket. “or me as I am going to have to buy something that works”
Who would have thought that having a reasonably up-to-date Pc with no problems running all the other software, no viruses or naff magazine software on it would mean that your consumer rights go out of the window, even when you are a good customer.
Still, On the upside………………..”still thinking about that one”
Splatt

[senu]

Splatt " Dont try to fix it" I said

Just how does E- buyer intend to check that it works...will they send you a DVD made on your machine with it installed ?
I think you should as a matter of principle insist that it has not fulfilled the purpose for which it was purchased. It has failed the fitness for purpose test and shoud go back to quality control ( Friday afternoon job!! )

Thier angle could be that being software it may have been copied / registered etc and have no resale or RMA value That is a valid point but it still doesnt explain you being out of pocket unless they are willing to exchange it for another product that works or ,( blank media, a new dvd writer???) whilst you shop around for any of the other suggestions
Good luck

yep well this what i asked for, and was told sorry out side the 30 days, but then silly me i did try to make it work and did not open the box as soon as it came through the door, thought i would wait a few day until i hade a bit of time to play with it!
going after my credit card now to see if they can make this work for me.
splatt
ps. i like the bit on the back of the Pinnacle box. "so many features, so little hassle" mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm "hassle"

Hi Guys.


Re. Item: Pinnacle Studio Plus v10 Video Editing Software Inc Pinnacle
Media Manager/HD Support - (Win
Xp Only)



I have just loaded this software on to my PC. It would appear that that there are some serious faults and that this software has been put out into the market before complete testing by Pinnacle.

Studio 10+ has crashed and hung during editing umpteen times, it has refused to complete movie and burn it to DVD.
It would appear that there are many forums on line complaining about this software not being able to deliver even the most basic of it’s promises.
I except that you normally only get bad forums as the happy people tent not to tell anyone.
But! Pinnacles own forum page is full of customers unhappy with this product and finding that it just does not work.

It should be noted that my PC meets all minimum and recommended system requirement for this software as I also purchased from you 160gb Hd and DVD burner to bring it up to spec.
My system is stable fully updated and licensed (XP Pro and all drivers ect)

Many of the people who comment about this software run top of the line PC’s who’s spec is way above any system requirements.

It should also be noted that Pinnacle are recommending users down load very large patch and fixes files.
I loaded this software last weekend and have had to download over 120 mb of fixes already, none of which seems to fix it.

On paper this software is just what I wanted, and could deliver home users with a great and versatile package.
However it is clear that it is not ready for the market therefore not fit for purpose for which it was purchased. I don’t know how long it will be before they can fix this product but I don’t think I can wait!
Please provide me with a return number for the 2 copy’s I purchased.
I am happy with the DVD and HD and will need them for what ever other software I decide to buy.
All the best

please note i do not want warranty repair as your site is telling me i must, i want a full refund.

[laser]

The latest patch has been relased v10.5.0 and it does seem to fixed lots of problems. My system seemed reletively stable with 10.2 but 10.5 does seem better and the software does load a lot faster now.

[senu]

Thanks
Another large ( 77.5 Mb) download though.Still if it works then its good thing.
Just wish they would stop selling beta versions and then get the end user to find all the bugs. If this were a buisness crictical software they would have been facing several class action lawsuits by now
PS: Full marks ( to Avid/Pinnacle) for effort though, Lets hope most of the "bugs" vanish with this update

Ok, so I can’t get my money back. Why should i! just because it does not work unless you have a Cray Computer in your living room, would seem not to be a good reason to abide by any consumer laws I have ever read.
But just a thought, how come every forum inc. Pinnacles have lots of suckers like me that say it will not work but the Video press still seem to say it’s great! “Nothing to do with advertising rates!” and not a readers letter complaining!
Am I still angry and frustrated “you bet”

[senu]

Splatty,
People complain ( a significant minority) , it is just ironic that it happens to work for some ( and they dont all have Cray computers in the living room or at work!).
Studios user interface is excellent ,

I must say that Studio would be a fast selling, worthy NLE if its performance ( and reliablity) matched its well designed interface and user controls

..from a previuos post
The 10.5 update may be worth trying. With it 10 is certainly much faster on my setup now. You can download it ( 78meg) or pm me ill send it to you on a CD. I still have a fully working 9.4.3 on another system but use AL7 a lot more these days.
Im wary of suggesting the excellent Sony Vegas Movie Studio (£70) but at least you can it try before you buy
See it Here . It is available in the UK .
One of the good things about it is its hardware spec are frugal.
If it has any minuses: its interface needs getting used to but Im sure youll find it a doddle!

[gkinghrn]

Originally Posted by cliveg

Hi...I feel I ought to defend Pinnacle Studio a bit here...

I have used Pinnacle Studio 7, 8 and now on 9 without any problems at all...i reckon it's a great piece of software...

Whenever I have gone to the next version, I always uninstall the previous version first...I don't go for the upgrade versions...always buy the full product. Whether this has anything to do with it, I don't know.

I have also installed the patches from Pinnacle's website as soon as they're available...again with no problems.

Maybe I'm just one of the lucky ones, but I reckon this software is great. I do quite a bit of timeline editing, adding transitions, music, voice-overs etc, and I find it so easy to use.

I have heard that a lot of people have had problems with this software, so as I said earlier, I must be one of the lucky ones.

One other point...I do keep my PC pretty much up together as far as patches, virus software etc is concerned, so that may help. ( I work in IT so I know a little about computers... )

Cheers,

Clive

Well I used all those versions too ...7 was great ..8 was really dodgy until they issued some decent partches for it after a few months , 9 was ok but again needed patches but was stable enough..10 is as bad as 8 was...They'll get it fixed b ut it might take tiome...I do think Studio is the easiest one to use and i've tried pretty much all of em.... Go get patches for 10 and see if they help...I have 10 as I said but use 9 right now...