£1K Budget - need advice on whether to buy Sony HDR-HC1E

[sayyfe]

Hi.

I'm a complete amateur to the camcorder field, but fairly up to speed with technology (and I plan to get into this field in more detail).

I've recently had twins and would like to know what camcorder is going to give me the most bang for my dough?!

I've earmarked £1K, and I've been taken in by the Sony HDR-HC1E based on the first entry level product to the prosumer market with HD capabilities.

Should I get it/Do I need it as a novice?
Is it a nightmare to convert HD to standard format to distribute to the family?
Am I barking up the wrong tree?

I simply want to capture those special moments now, but thought it sounded a good bet based on the fact that we're moving over to HD in the near future.

I don't want to spend weeks learning about video editing, but at the same time, I want the best quality for my money, and HD seemed to be it.

I've read some reviews about 'dropping out' (audio not matching video). Is this a glitch, or something to do with formats used for recording/viewing.

Any advice most appreciated.

Steve.

The HC1 is a cracker for the dough, it's certainly the nearest thing you are going to get to future proof at this end of the market, remember that a professional viewfinder alone costs about £2k so although the HC1 aint cheap, it is pretty much in the consumer realm.

The cam can record as HDV or as regular DV, if you record in HDV for the future proofing then youcan down convert on camera for DV editing, beware that you will need a really top end computer for HDV editing.

Drop out can be more of a problem becasue of the MPEG recording ( a stream of changes to a frame rather than complete frames) if you sick to one brand of tapes then you should be okay.

I use an HC1 along side an FX1, the HC1 is a little bit dim indoors (it compensates by adding loads of gain, urrgh) there aren't complete manual control feedback (i.e. no independant gain or aperture control or information, if this means nothing to you then it's not important)

It's fundamnetally a great wee cam, you wont get anything better for a grand

[sayyfe]

Excellent.

Thanks for getting back to me, I thought I wouldn't hear from anyone!

I'm just about to order it.

I'll probably record in both formats (HDV/DV) for now, as I'll need to get up to speed with all this editing and conversion to different formats if I want to watch it on a conventional DVD player that doesn't have HD support (I don't think they're even out yet).

Talking of computers ... I'm upgrading that too as I need to bin the desktop for a new laptop to make room for the twins (I lose my office ). Will the following Acer Travelmate 8106WLMi spec be sufficient for HDV editing:

Intel Pentium-M Centrino 780 Processor Technology 2.2GHz
1GB DDRII SDRAM
120GB Hard Drive
DVD Super Multi Dual Layer Drive - write to CDs, DVD+, DVD-, large Dual Layer DVD and DVD-Ram
15.4" XGA Widescreen TFT Screen
ATI Mobility X700 PCI-E 256MB dedicated graphics (may be 128MB)

I've heard about the dropout problems. Do you get this when you record in DV format, HDV format, or when you convert from HDV to DV? Is it a noticeable annoyance, or just a glitch? I hope it's not in HDV format, as that sounds like a bit of a negative. From what I understand, dropout is when you lose audio and video sync?

Would love the FX1, but I feel it's too over the top as an amateur ... plus it's a lot of money to justify the expense at this point in time.

Cheers for the reply, you've helped me to finally make a decision.

Steve.

[vonhosen]

The drop out is more likely using HDV than DV.
This is because HDV records in MPEG format (unlike DV which is AVI format)
MPEG uses temporal compression which is where it doesn't record full frame information for every frame. It has GOPs (Group of Pictures) made up of I,B & P frames. Only the I frames contain full picture information and in PAL recording they occur typically every 15 frames, with NTSC every 18 frames. It is therefore not as robust & a drop out has a greater impact with MPEG, because it affects so many frames and will be more noticeable.

For HDV editing although it may work with less, most software will recommend minimum processor speeds nearer 3GHz & a minimum of 512mb of RAM.
The actual amount you can get away with, will be dependent which editing package you use to a certain degree.

[sayyfe]

Thanks for that.

So is this dropout issue a problem with HDV format irrespective of camcorder, or more specific to the HDR1?

I've ordered it now, but don't really fancy a camcorder that's going to have notcieable dropouts all the time. Doesn't sound good at all.

Steve.

[vonhosen]

It's not that the HC1 is more prone to it, just that MPEG format is.

I wouldn't worry unduly, you have got yourself a good cam IMHO & probably the best you can get for 1k

[sayyfe]

Okey doke.

I did start to worry that it's all a bit unnecessary seeing as HDV isn't going to be commonplace for a good while yet. I thought maybe I should invest the same money in buying the best DV cam that I could.

I read this article comparing 2 DV's with the FX1 HDV. The author seems to have a point when they talk about Hi-Def: Now? or later? It also features a bit about dropouts.

http://www.dvxuser.com/articles/shoot3/

Does anyone know how the standard of DV recording on the HDR-HC1 compares to DV only camcorders at the £1K mark?

Cheers.

[MarkE19]

Be aware that all laptops have problems with video editing, be it HDV or just plain DV. This is due to the fact that their internal HDD will have a slow spin speed that can have problems keeping up with the capture of video. The only safe way to use a laptop is to get an external firewire HDD for all the video files.
I know that Roy has given up on useing a PC ATM for HDV editing and moved onto a Mac. So if buying from scratch and don't have a definate reason to stick to a PC a Mac could be a good bet. Otherwise just stick to SD DV capture and editing, which at the moment is the way to go as there is currently no way of outputting HD video other than recording back to the camcorder.

Mark.

A regular dv camera at this price would probably be 3ccd, whereas the HC1 has a single (CMOS) imager, but there aren't really any outside the clumsy PC1000 that are really widescreen. The footage from my HC1 intercuts almost seamlessly from my (3ccd) FX1.

I maintain that it was the best way to spend your cash, Mark's right, I have had nothing but problems with HD on the PC platform, and it is a good platform (twin P4 1gb Ram, 256 graphics second 7200rpm capture drive) with updated drivers etc, the mac worked well out of the box, however you would want at least a gig of RAM (though 2 gb would be better, so you are talking about a powerbook with the expansion capacity) and Macs are comparatively more expensive than similar specced PC's. I would always recommend a 7200rpm external drive.

Onthe PC route I've tried Premiere Pro 1.5.1 and it isn't happy, I also installed Pinnacle 10 which just about runs if I really reduce the graphics settings (16bit colour as opposed to 32 bit, single screen and 1028x764 res.

My humble Mac Mini single processor slower clock speed runs HDV though FCP5 is the best for it's live capture (imovie and FCE use a sluggish intermediate codec).

Most video professionals have long been mac users, I wish I had bought my mac long ago.