Hi,

I am looking to buy my first camcorder to be used for holidays & home movies, (nothing high-end just good performance all round and simple to use) and would like some suggestions (£250-300). From what I have read on this forum, Canons have some problems and Sonys are popular, so I have had a look at the Sony range at Amazon and have found the DCR-HC22 which seems to be recommended here.

As I will still need to buy an extra battery, carry case, tapes, firewire card & cable and a dvd writer, I am looking at £300 maximum for the camcorder (this one is £299). However, I plan to use it for several years so I would have to consider going for a higher model if there was value in it.

Are there any bad points about this model, or would you recommend another?

Thanks

J

Hi,
I purchased a HC-22 yesterday. I'm taking it back today NOT because it's a bad machine, on the contrary it's lovely but i wanted a camera with AV in and stereo in to get footage from my VHS recorder onto my Mac. The camcorder is very well made and i like the touch screen. It feels solid and i think comftable in the hand. Your best bet is to go along to somewhere like Jessops and try one out. They have them for £339 but i price matched down to £299. If it wasn't for the extra inputs needed i would be very happy with it.
The model i'm going for is the JVC GR D290. I would love to get the Sony HC-32 but my budget will not stretch that far.

Hey boybrown,

Now that you mention it, AV in would be a useful feature for me if it allows me to transfer my videos onto PC easily. I have checked out the JVC GR D290 at Amazon (£289) and it seems to have quite alot of features compared to the HC22. I also found a review for it at simplydv.co.uk which says "great all-round performance at a competitive price", but they dont have reviews of the Sony range for a comparison.

Another plus is that it has a photo mode which I dont think the HC22 has; a feature that would be useful. If you have tried it out, can you let me know if the photos are of comparible quality to a good digicam? And also your general impressions of the camcorder?

Also, you mentioned that you would prefer the Sony HC-32; how is it better?

Thanks

J

[AMc]

The HC-22 has a photo mode but no memory stick so it records a static image to tape for a few seconds.
The battery life is around an hour of normal use which hasn't caused me any trouble to date but if you go away for long periods away from mains power then it could be.
Personally if I shot more than an hour of footage a day I would never get the time to view or edit it
I'm really happy with my HC-22 but I have no experience of other modern camcorders except this one so I can't make comparisons with the JVC. All my previous video experience was with semi-pro cameras back in the early nineties!

If you can you should try them out - but I didn't and had to buy on features and reviews.

JSM,

The HC-32 has more inputs than the 22 plus something to do with MPEG. I'm not too clever on all this film malarky!
Check them out at www.sony.co.uk. The cheapest i've seen the HC 32 for online is £341 i think.

As i said the HC 22 is a very nice machine. When i held the two machines i prefered the Sony over the JVC slightly. I didn't use the remote control. To be fair i took the HC 22 out the box had a quick play and put it back again. But it's small and well formed. It's a shame it hasn't all the features i want.

As Amc said, the best thing is go and have a play. If you need AV in go for a different model. There are sooo many to choose from it becomes mind boggling.

good luck.

Well it seems like Jessops wont honour their price match statement. I returned the Sony Hc 22 and asked for the JVC GR D290. I explained about the previous nights price match. They could only price match down to £320. I then said how is £320 the same as £265? "That's the best we can do" Ok refund my money and i'll get it online. So that's what i intend to do. I'll order from Digital Direct.

[MarkE19]

Jessops only guarentee a pricematch with local stores AFAIK. In my experience UK internet pricematching has been down to the stores manager. Therefore I would suggest going to another store and trying to get them to pricematch the internet, you may be lucky!

Mark.

[mjw123]

I think you should seriously be considering the 3xCCD Panasonic NVGS75B - just over £300 at Ebuyer and a completely different level in terms of picture quality. Not all the bells and whistles but far superior picture quality if you believe the magazine reviews.

[MartinImber]

Sony cameras are among the best value. The mid range mini DV decks are good.

The Memory Stick stills and anamorphic Widescreen models are the ones to get

MarE19,
The silly thing is iwas in the same store yesterday and they price matched then. I think the guy behind the counter didn't have the authourisation to price match. I dealt with the manager yesterday and he wasn't there today. The other Jessops in Birmingham city centre didn't have the JVC.
They do price match to the internet but only to uk based stores.

mjw123, eventhough £300 is alot cheaper than most places are selling it, the Panasonic NVGS75B lacks both AV or DV inputs which I would like.

Anyone have any experince with the JVC GR D290? It seems to be a great camcorder for this price range and it seems to have all the features, I would just like to know if there are any bad points about it from someone who has used it a for a while. I searched the forum but theres been little talk about it; anyone got one?

boybrown, I checked out Digital Direct who have it at £275 inc del. (£15 cheaper than Amazon), so thanks for that; I will probably get it from them if I decide to get it.

JSM,
I'm in the same boat as you. I will order the camcorder today. The only downsides it seems to have is some mechanism noise in very quiet shooting and a bottom loading tape system. It's not going to be for heavy use so i'm going with it at £275 delivered. Sounds too good to be true!! hmmm.
I may get an "off topic" smiley here but what is a rough price for a good 6-4 firewire cable. sorry.

[mjw123]

Originally Posted by jsm

mjw123, eventhough £300 is alot cheaper than most places are selling it, the Panasonic NVGS75B lacks both AV or DV inputs which I would like.

Anyone have any experince with the JVC GR D290? It seems to be a great camcorder for this price range and it seems to have all the features, I would just like to know if there are any bad points about it from someone who has used it a for a while. I searched the forum but theres been little talk about it; anyone got one?

boybrown, I checked out Digital Direct who have it at £275 inc del. (£15 cheaper than Amazon), so thanks for that; I will probably get it from them if I decide to get it.

Fair enough - what do you plan to use DV in for ?

Please be aware that ALL camcorders with DV in have to carry a surcharge (stipulated by the EU) as this makes the camcorder more than just a camcorder so you have to pay a hefty premium for this facility.

I have DV in on my JVC GRD93 and have never used it.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

One mans meat is another mans poison

Whats good for the goose is not always good for the gander.

Everybody has their own ideas on a choice of camcorder.
Size of the Unit. Optical length. Price. Etc. I have had 17
camcorders since 2002. I am never satisfied. I can tell you
that it boils down to the end result and that is
what you see on the screen. If you look at the finished images
and say `wow thats good' then the performance of your cam
has justified your buying it.

Personally I prefer Canon or Panasonic over Sony because both
manufacturers have listened to customers and improved their
products accordingly. I find touchscreens a bind and a battery power consumer.

My advice is select your price range and select your choices within that
range. Then review and compare. You will eliminate most of your choices.
Narrow the list to 2-3 and then find the best price. Always use a credit card if possible particularly if buying online. Any problems with the retailer and your
card services will intervene. They aint all good guys out there.
(Try getting a returns RMA from a company like Savastore and you will see what I mean)

My current Camcorders which replaced the excellent Canon MVX3i
are the Panasonic NV-GS400 3CCD includes 4 megapixel stills (£675)and as a backup the Panasonic NV-GS35i (£298) (Its 30X optical lens which at the full length definitely needs a tripod,saves an additional add on) It does not have DV in but I use the GS400 for that. It can pick out the hairs on a flies bum at 10 metres with its with its 30X still facility) Both are top loaders.

The next stop may be HD, but not for a while because not many TVs have that capability, nor do many PCs or editing suites.

Originally Posted by mjw123

Fair enough - what do you plan to use DV in for ?

The DV in will be used for transfering edited video back onto the DV tape for backup, so I can keep a high quality copy of that too. Having said that, I am not sure how much editing I will do so I may not use this feature alot. I will be using the AV in though to transfer my VHS stuff onto PC.

[mjw123]

Originally Posted by jsm

The DV in will be used for transfering edited video back onto the DV tape for backup, so I can keep a high quality copy of that too. Having said that, I am not sure how much editing I will do so I may not use this feature alot. I will be using the AV in though to transfer my VHS stuff onto PC.

If you need AV in for old VHS that's fair enough.

On the DV in side would you not just use a DVD burner from your PC to store your footage ? Maybe you want a copy on your DV Tapes and Burnt DVD as well.

[MarkE19]

Originally Posted by boybrown

I may get an "off topic" smiley here but what is a rough price for a good 6-4 firewire cable. sorry.

Don't worry about paying extra for a brand named firewire cable. As long as it is firewire then it will do the job. Stick to 1.8m or less. Online you should pay no more than £10 for a generic cable.

Mark.

[MarkE19]

Originally Posted by Plasma

Personally I prefer Canon or Panasonic over Sony because both
manufacturers have listened to customers and improved their
products accordingly.

Try doing a search on this forum for Canon and you will see loads of people with complaints about Canon NOT listening to their customers. In the USA Canon are being taken to court for not doing anything about a known hardware fault that results in an expensive repair. This problem is also common on the UK models.

Mark.

[MarkE19]

Originally Posted by mjw123

On the DV in side would you not just use a DVD burner from your PC to store your footage ? Maybe you want a copy on your DV Tapes and Burnt DVD as well.

It is highly recommended that you don't rely on a DVD for archiving. they are far too easily damaged/scratched and then become unplayable. Then there is the problem with DVD rot!
If you want to keep your footage for the long term then you need to put it onto a tape, and with DV tapes being so cheap and already having the DV drive to make the copies it seems the best option to me.

Mark.

I have had 2 Canons, both gave no probs at all so I cannot comment on their failings regarding any hardware problems. However if any of my cams have a problem under warranty I would send it back rapid. Generally speaking Sony quality is excellent. Unfortunatley I have had 2 cams that have had to be returned. the first was repaired within 3 weeks in Birmingham (Collected myself) The other was never seen again, got lost at their repair branch at Heathrow.
Took them 5 months to replace it.

Originally Posted by MarkE19

Don't worry about paying extra for a brand named firewire cable. As long as it is firewire then it will do the job. Stick to 1.8m or less. Online you should pay no more than £10 for a generic cable.

Mark.

Mark, thanks for the info. I eagerly await my new camera and cable.