Español Français Deutsch Italiano Nederlands Svenska Dansk Japanese Chinese (Simplified) Russian
 
AVForums.com twitter AVForums is a member of CEDIA. THX certified reviewer.  Click for more information. AVForums reviewers are ISF Certified.  Click for more information.
 
The UK's biggest and best home entertainment electronics forums  
4 million visitors each month


Forums Register Blogs Information Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Go Back   AVForums.com > Home Electronics > Camcorders and Video Editing

Today's price checkPowered by
Panasonic SDR-S26
Sony HDR-XR520VE 240GB
Canon Legria FS200
Panasonic HDC-SD10
Panasonic SDR-S26 
Sony HDR-XR520VE 240GB 
Canon Legria FS200 
Panasonic HDC-SD10 
Sony DCR-SR37E 60GB 
JVC GZ-MG630 60GB 
Sanyo Xacti VPC-CG10 
JVC GZ-MS120 
Panasonic HDC-SD200 
Samsung SMX-C10 
 More...Prices updated November 23rd at 7:30pm and include delivery.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-03-2005, 12:48 PM   #1 (permalink)
Dad's Army
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Camcorder upgrade

I am currently using a Sony PC9e camcorder, its a year or two old now, it uses a 4.5mm(1/4 type)ccd approximately 800,000 pixels (effective:400,000 pixels). I have always been disappointed in the picture clarity/sharpness at long shots and in poor light conditions(i Know most cams do suffer this problem however).I am looking to upgrade to something that will give better sharpness/clarity over the PC9 and hopefully better low light performance. I have been looking at the new Sony 3mp chip cameras such as the DCR-PC350 and Panasonics 3 CCD cameras such as the NV-GS 400.I also see that Sony are releasing a 3 cmos chip camera, Ive heard that 3CCD cameras dont perform too good in low light ,my question is really should I go for a Sony 3mp chip camera or a 3 CCD camera or is it worth a wait for the 3 cmos chip camera, your views would be appreciated.I tend to edit footage on PC then output to DVD,I'm an amateur but still like to try and get the best quality I can........Many thanks.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2005, 8:49 PM   #2 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: c-town
Posts: 198
Thanks: Gave 2, Got 0
Yes, generally a 3CCD camera gives slightly worse performance in lower light. You could always get a big chunky battery and clamp a light on the front tho.. it all depends what you're doing really, and what kind of price you can spend.

My friends just picked up the GS400, but I can't get on MSN for some reason this last week (problem on my PC with sockets) but if I see him I'll ask him how its going. It seems like a nice little camera.

Unfortunately the lowest "good low level" cam is the VX2000. Maybe the VX1000 I've not used one, they would be fairly cheapish second hand now too.....
JayX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2005, 11:28 PM   #3 (permalink)
Roy Mallard
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
CMOS = naffesque
CCD is the only way to go, especially for the imense and rapid contiguous processing video requires.

Panny GS400, smallish chips (although it's 3x, as the light is split 3 ways it only really adds up to 1 in terms of brightness).

VX's have 1/3chips, yep better, but even a fast lens with a 2/3rd ccd block is only going to record dark if theres no light....

Jayx's advice about the extra light is, I'm afraid the only way to go....

Digital Zooms, colour viewfinders and supernightvisionscopeultra etc... systems are only there because some focus group in Japan liked the sound of them... the skinny is they don't work that well, lord Kelvin and Albert Einstein weren't wrong...
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2005, 1:28 PM   #4 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: c-town
Posts: 198
Thanks: Gave 2, Got 0
I think its definitely worth building a page for people buying consumer cameras to show them what is just sales blurb and what is genuinely needed. I think people are starting to get the hang of the digital zoom thing now, nothing worse than a barrel showing off it has "800x". *shudders*.

Regarding the CMOS/CCD thing, well I must admit I know nothing about CMOS. And I don't plan to start learning about it either! I think the best way for people to know what tech to use is, look at the expensive cameras. Look what they offer, then look at what you can afford and compare them. If a £5000 camera is using CCDs still, and the new cheap camera is offering CMOS... doesn't generally mean its the best way to go. Its why I'm not envious of anything with "true" widescreen on their cheapy cams (except the PDX10 kids, cos I have a TRV950 :P) because I can add real widescreen with a lens that'll blow theirs out of the water still!

Its insane how many gimmicks there are on cameras still, even prosumer/professional cameras. The HC1000 is the best example, an example of a camera model going completely the wrong way! More gimmicks than ever before, and a worse camera for it. Sony, Canon, Panasonic et al KNOW everyone uses PC/Mac solutions to edit with these days, so crap digital effects etc do nothing but add price and buttons to cameras, when a camera that offers no editing features but a better quality build and lens for the same price would be a lot more popular amongst people doing their research.
JayX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2005, 4:52 PM   #5 (permalink)
Conspicuous Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Rainham Essex
Posts: 7,625
Thanks: Gave 15, Got 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayX
Sony, Canon, Panasonic et al KNOW everyone uses PC/Mac solutions to edit with these days, so crap digital effects etc do nothing but add price and buttons to cameras, when a camera that offers no editing features but a better quality build and lens for the same price would be a lot more popular amongst people doing their research.
Sorry to disagree herre, but I know that most people don't use a PC/Mac for video editing. Yes, the majority of technical people such as those that visit this and other forums will. But many people just want a VHS of the grandchildren etc when they come to visit. Therefore no editing is wanted, just a straight copy to VHS.
Take the above 'non techie' people and when they walk into a shop such as Dixons to buy a camcorder they are going to be looking for 'the one with the best features'. The fact that they will hardly ever use most of them has nothing to do with it as the sales person will push the more expensive model with more useless features. Therefore the features do create more sales, as 'Joe Public' perceive that they have got a better deal. Best quality will not be at the top of most peoples list of requirements as they are most likely to just buy what the sales person tells them is 'best'.

Mark.
__________________
Lexicon MC-8B. L/C/R: Blue Sky 6.5's, SL/SR/SBL/SBR: Blue Sky 5's, Sub: Velodyne DD-15
Panasonic NV-HS830, VTX-D800U via TiVo, Arcam DV29 & Sony BDP-S500 > Lumagen VisionHDP > Panasonic TH-46PZ85B. Marantz RC9200
MarkE19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2005, 6:58 PM   #6 (permalink)
Dad's Army
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
thanks for all your views folks. Re cmos I think they are cheaper to produce , it just seemed that Sony were hyping it as the first of its kind available to the consumer as though it may be a better alternative to CCD.My budget really is between £700 and £1000 ,you can get some decent deals the nearer to 3700 the better.Has anyone got any views of the 3mp single chip over the 3 ccd chip cameras ? The problem with camcorders is that you dont know how good they are till you try them..........Ta
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2005, 2:34 PM   #7 (permalink)
hao
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Had A Sony DCR PC 120E for 18 months now and carn't fault it. Used it to transfer all my old VHS and 8mm tapes to DVD it takes first class recordings, costs about £750.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2005, 12:03 PM   #8 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Birmingham, West Midlands, England, UK, EU, Europe, Earth, Solar System, Milky Way, Universe (I dont know which one)
Posts: 69
Thanks: Gave 1, Got 0
Question

What is CMOS? And how does it compare to CCD?

Thanks

Tim.
Timse1981 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2005, 3:40 PM   #9 (permalink)
Conspicuous Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Rainham Essex
Posts: 7,625
Thanks: Gave 15, Got 465
CMOS = Complementary Metal Oxide Semiconductor
CCD = Charge-Coupled Device

There you go, that just about explains it all doesn't it


What do you mean - NO!

Ho hum, then you had better have a quick read Here although this relates to CCD vs CMOS in a digitasl stills camera, but does explain the differences between the two technologies.
A bit more reading Here.

Both the above sites were found with just a quick Google search for 'ccd vs cmos' and brought up a lot more sites if you can be bothered to read them all.

Mark.
__________________
Lexicon MC-8B. L/C/R: Blue Sky 6.5's, SL/SR/SBL/SBR: Blue Sky 5's, Sub: Velodyne DD-15
Panasonic NV-HS830, VTX-D800U via TiVo, Arcam DV29 & Sony BDP-S500 > Lumagen VisionHDP > Panasonic TH-46PZ85B. Marantz RC9200
MarkE19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2005, 12:01 AM   #10 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Birmingham, West Midlands, England, UK, EU, Europe, Earth, Solar System, Milky Way, Universe (I dont know which one)
Posts: 69
Thanks: Gave 1, Got 0
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkE19
CMOS = Complementary Metal Oxide Semiconductor
CCD = Charge-Coupled Device

There you go, that just about explains it all doesn't it


What do you mean - NO!

Ho hum, then you had better have a quick read Here although this relates to CCD vs CMOS in a digitasl stills camera, but does explain the differences between the two technologies.
A bit more reading Here.

Both the above sites were found with just a quick Google search for 'ccd vs cmos' and brought up a lot more sites if you can be bothered to read them all.

Mark.
Thanks

Mark.
Timse1981 is offline   Reply With Quote



Bookmarks

Tags
camcorder, upgrade
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


All times are GMT. The time now is 7:50 PM.

AV Forums
Optimised for Firefox.
RSS Feed
AVForums.com is owned and operated by M2N Limited.
Copyright © 2000-2009 M2N E. & O. E.
Global Gold
Web Hosting