[n0v0s]

Hi Guys,

my first post so please go easy ..

I've been trying my best to find the 'best' camcorder under £1100 ish for the last few days and everytime i think i've found the best compromise for me.. i find another or change my mind and get even more confused

Now i know this is very dependant on what i want from the camcorder.. i.e. 3D, wide angled lense etc.. but tbh, i'm not a major proffessional geek by a long shot - just an amatuer enthusiast and my technical knowledge behind choosing the correct spec isn't that great. Think *buy the most expensive i can afford* sums up how i go about choosing - baaad, i know!

I don't want a 3D cam as i wouldn't use it so it would be a a gimmick more than anything.. i'd like something wide lensed (so, a sony?) great pic quality, in low light too (so, a panasonic?) and with decent inbuilt storage.

I'm not sure which HD cams are now 'older' models, which ones are more expensive JUST because they have bigger inbuilt memory but similiar performace otherwise etc - this is where i'd especially appreciate any input.

Buy Panasonic HC-X900 3D HD 1080p Camcorder, 9.15MP, 12x Optical Zoom, 3.5

SONY HDR-CX700 HD Camcorder - Black buy online | Currys

PANASONIC HDC-HS900 Full HD Camcorder - Black buy online | Currys

I've looked at these so far, any better ones about? Gaah, doing my head in! I'd reeeeeally appreciate any input, thanks!

[Gramuk]

I'm in pretty much the exact same situation - have a similar budget and am trying to decide agains the X900 and the newest Sony CX7xx series. Again, I'm just "buy the best you can afford" and so have been searching on-line for reviews etc. Even looked on Youtube at sample video's etc. and am still no nearer which one to go for. I have an old Sony MiniDV which has served me well but I want to head to HD. I liked the night vision on the Sony and a few of the auto scene setups - but the X900 has the option for 3D later if I choose to buy the lense. I must say I'm edging towards the X900 purely because many other users have this model (or it's previous model) and everything seems okay with those reviews. Im just waiting to get my hands on one in a store and then I'll make up my mind once I see how they feel. Anyway - good luck with your search and hope it works out well for you.

[Bob++]

As far as I can see the X900 is not much improved over the SD900, which is not that much better than The SD700. Don't forget to budget for some extras:
Battery and charger.
Editing suite.
Memory cards.
Tripod
Bag
External Mike

Can easily add a couple of hundred quid.

[Chelters]

Personally I'd avoid those with a hard disk. Hard disks are fragile and power hungry compared to flash memory.
They usually cost a fair bit more too.

From the curry's website..

PANASONIC HDC-HS900 .... £924.99
PANASONIC HDC-TM900 .... £849.99
PANASONIC HDC-SD900 .... £549.99

The only difference between these 3 are the recording media. The HS has an inbuilt hard disk, The TM has inbuilt flash memory, the SD has no inbuilt recording media, all have slots for SDHC cards.

I know which one I'd buy, the SD then add a couple of 16GB cards (£20 ish each online - play.com and others) each card will hold around an hour of 50p video (the cams highest setting) or two hours at the next setting down, should be more than enough for anyone!

By my reckoning you'd have around £400 to play with to get those extra's Bob++ has listed but you may want to add an external mic to the list.

[Gramuk]

For me I think I'm heading for the X900 (If I can get my hands on one in a store first).
I hear the upgrades from the S900 are minimal with a slightly wider lens and a better 3D capability that goes with it if I ever decide to go to 3D in the future. SD memory is extremely cheap now and so that's another positive over built in storage. I prefer to have "small chunks" of video on seperate cards so if the card fails then you don't lose everything. So, if I'd already had an S900 then there would be no point in getting the X900 but for me I'd be coming from an old Sony MiniDV camcorder and so the upgrade in my case would be huge. I realise the S would be cheaper but I tend to buy the very latest models where possible - but then again there's always the case for a proven older model.
So far as accessories then I think external Mic, memory and batteries / charger should see me okay. I've been playing with Vegas with the old Sony DV tapes and so have that already. I think I also need to upgrade my PC but I'll see how I get on once I get a camera and start editing on it in HD. So there's another chunk of money. It's all adding up but I'll sneak it past the wife somehow....
Cheers, Graeme

[JH4]

You may want to consider the upcoming (May) Sony GW55VE which is on their web site. It's an upgrade of their original TG3 and 7 versions, which came out a while back. I still have the TG3 which is a great little portable camcorder you can carry around in your pocket. 1080 HD recordings and stills on to high speed SD cards. The new one has a 20MP sensor, upgraded and with a few more features added.
No price as yet..

[12harry]

nOvOs, I never understand the notion of starting with an over-complicated cameras/camcorder, before learning the basics (this excludes those who already have a camcorder, naturally)....a simple basic camera is far easier to work and is likely to produce good shots - and when it doesn't you learn how to "workaround" - a fancy camera is more likely to be left at home - but what do I know?

Looks like Pana Marketing has got the X900 right, as there is a queue forming....

BTW those HDD recorders are fine when there is little chance you can carry a bag of SDHC cards about and Customs will likely confiscate the camera, or let it pass . . . but I'll agree they are more fragile (some say) and take more power.

[JH4]

Just announced today- another (more expensive) camcorder from Sony> The HXR-NX30E.

[Gramuk]

Harry - I agree with what you said about leaving the camera at home. I remember when I bought my Sony MiniDV (at the time I paid 1200+ Pounds for it) and I have to say it got left in the safe when we went on holidays! I went to John Lewis yesterday to try getting my hands on an X900 but nowhere in Newcastle had one actually in store - so I wait a month or so until they actually get into stores. Meanwhile I've just ordered parts to upgrade my PC to an i7 Win7 Ultra 64 bit and 32Gb memory and a couple of 2TB drives / Blue ray burner etc. so will be putting that together in a day or so when the bits all arrive. Hopefully by the time I get everything up and running I'll get hold of a camcorder - otherwise my son will kidnap the PC and load it up with games!

[12harry]

Gramuk, that's a lot of PC - to maintain ownership, you could use caddies for those 2Tb's - keep them in the Safe, eh? (and maybe the box of BlueRays?)
At computer fairs these caddies are about £7 each, (inc. small fan) - but they are plastic . . . for nice metal ones they are nearer £20 each..... I keep the OS on one, but I think it's not practical for every drive, so I've started screwing them in, where I can.

[Y15HAL]

Interesting read for me...maybe a little over my budget, but still worth a look....

Did you buy one in the end?

[12harry]

X900
I think there's another Thread bemoaning the lack of X900 delivery from Jessops . . .I doubt it is the Shops fault (although it could be! -DYOR), so perhaps Pana is having a supply difficulty.... or maybe there is a newer model about to break free!

Certainly it's nice to have the latest "update" which you might think had ironed out conflicts and maybe tweaked the performance.
By more experienced folk here suggest there is little update to be gained from the near+£400 cost.
There - - - FWIW.

[chrishull3]

Canon Vixia HF G10 Camcorder Review - CamcorderInfo.com
Dont pass this one without a thought,its not a bad uk price now and is the best low light cam.

[Kevo]

Didn't the Canon G10 come up tops in The Gadget Show Review yesterday?
However, the review was flawe as it wasn' a like for liek comparison. It was pitted agains lower range models of Pnasonic and JVC.

[chrishull3]

Dont know i didnt see the show,the G10 is the bottom of that range of canon cams though price wise.

[Kevo]

Originally Posted by chrishull3

Dont know i didnt see the show,the G10 is the bottom of that range of canon cams though price wise.

No it isn't. It's their flagship pro-sumer camcorder at around £1200 (HF G10), but the PQ comes nowhere near that of the Panasonic 3cmos range at around £200 cheaper.

[12harry]

The only "fair" comparison for us on planet Earth and in holiday-mood is PRICE.

so I think Kevo has it, although if you go for the earlier Pana SD900, or SD700 even then those prices blow the HF G10
-but somewhere I thought the HF G10 had LANC, which raises the spec considerably, and definately removes us from "holiday mood" (above). It has dual SD card slots and a modest internal memory.

Where the Pana 700,800,900 series might excel is their 3-CMOS chip design, but unless you are after exceptional colour, I think a Beyer-pattern is acceptable, provided the Chip is a decent size.

To get XLR-inputs you have to double the Canon-spend, which starts to look pricey.

The trouble with Gadget Show is they are a bit jokey; not surprising when you see the presenters and presumably that is reflection of their target market. They do sometimes have interesting comparisons and can show kit that I would never use.....but if there is any time-conflict with something else, I will ditch watching GS.

[chrishull3]

Originally Posted by Kevo

No it isn't. It's their flagship pro-sumer camcorder at around £1200 (HF G10), but the PQ comes nowhere near that of the Panasonic 3cmos range at around £200 cheaper.

No its the lowest priced in that price range next up is the XA10,i have tested one and for colour and low light it the best CONSUMER cam,the pana range with 50P option have slightly more resolution but making use of it on anything but hard drive playback is another story.

[chrishull3]

Originally Posted by 12harry

The only "fair" comparison for us on planet Earth and in holiday-mood is PRICE.

so I think Kevo has it, although if you go for the earlier Pana SD900, or SD700 even then those prices blow the HF G10
-but somewhere I thought the HF G10 had LANC, which raises the spec considerably, and definately removes us from "holiday mood" (above). It has dual SD card slots and a modest internal memory.

Where the Pana 700,800,900 series might excel is their 3-CMOS chip design, but unless you are after exceptional colour, I think a Beyer-pattern is acceptable, provided the Chip is a decent size.

To get XLR-inputs you have to double the Canon-spend, which starts to look pricey.

The trouble with Gadget Show is they are a bit jokey; not surprising when you see the presenters and presumably that is reflection of their target market. They do sometimes have interesting comparisons and can show kit that I would never use.....but if there is any time-conflict with something else, I will ditch watching GS.

Canon Legria HF G10 - Compare Prices - PriceRunner UK
This is a consumer cam
Panasonic HDC-SD900 - Compare Prices - PriceRunner UK Quite a bit more expensive than the panas though who always give good value for money but although i use Panasonic cameras myself i am open minded and there are some http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1398972
who have problems with Pana cams,

[Kevo]

I too swear by pan cams, except the 300 series a few years ago which gave a green cast to the picture. This was well doc but has been resolved in more recent series. I currently use the TM900 and have had no issues whatsoever.

[SWR246]

Hi,

I am currently selling a Panasonic TM700, which has 32GB internal memory, and comes with two batteries one of them a high capacity battery for 6+ hours recording. If you look at its reviews then you'll see how well it performs. If your interested, its here:

http://www.avforums.com/forums/digit...r-reduced.html

Thanks

[12harry]

SWR246, (link, yr Ad.) - I think the 700, also has earphone output...?

Kevo I guess most Mfrs find they can't fix a bug, although it makes one wonder "why not?" - as to the green - you remind me the 3MOS sensors use "green shift" so it creates "in-between" pixels, this in effect gives a greater pixel-count than would otherwise be the case.....

[SWR246]

12harry, yes it does have earphone output as well, I have added this to the thread.

Thanks

[12harry]

JH4 reading earlier post #6 the Sony GW55VE spec reads like a Pro-camera . . .and all this in a pistol-grip style, which "usually" spells CONsumer. . . . so it will be interesting to see if it really does give fully detailed colour at 3Lux and the walk-about steady really is er, steady.
+
Can't wait for Reviews . . . pity about the external audio sockets (there are none)...DYOR.
+
I'm guessing, but this should Retail under £500 as an Impulse present (for someone that won't use it).

Chrishull3 #18 - I presume you refer to the issues involving 50p - but I understand this is "resolved now" with some subtle changes to the DVD/BlueRay specifications . . . . quite what these are I don't know - but Sony is now pushing out 50p camcorders . . . . whereas until recently they didn't (probably because the i-Spec was the only true standard?).
Was that the issue, perhaps?
+ By contrast, Pana has been selling 50p-Camcorders for some time, maybe in the hope the "p-Specification" will be included . . . . it would be interesting to know if the Pana-"p" is exactly the same as the current specification, but I guess we can only "hope"

(Vegas Studio v11 accepts 50p in addition to the 50i of previous versions. DYOR.)
EDIT:- I suspect yr PS3 BlueRay player may not be to the latest spec, that's why it doen't like 50p. My Philips 3D player (just bought) claims it accepts 480p,576p, 720p 1080i, 1080p and 1080p24...but I only know that checking after reading yr Post#25.


SWR246 a good price, I only wish that model suited my needs. Good Luck.

[chrishull3]

Originally Posted by 12harry

JH4 reading earlier post #6 the Sony GW55VE spec reads like a Pro-camera . . .and all this in a pistol-grip style, which "usually" spells CONsumer. . . . so it will be interesting to see if it really does give fully detailed colour at 3Lux and the walk-about steady really is er, steady.
+
Can't wait for Reviews . . . pity about the external audio sockets (there are none)...DYOR.
+
I'm guessing, but this should Retail under £500 as an Impulse present (for someone that won't use it).

Chrishull3 #18 - I presume you refer to the issues involving 50p - but I understand this is "resolved now" with some subtle changes to the DVD/BlueRay specifications . . . . quite what these are I don't know - but Sony is now pushing out 50p camcorders . . . . whereas until recently they didn't (probably because the i-Spec was the only true standard?).
Was that the issue, perhaps?
+ By contrast, Pana has been selling 50p-Camcorders for some time, maybe in the hope the "p-Specification" will be included . . . . it would be interesting to know if the Pana-"p" is exactly the same as the current specification, but I guess we can only "hope"

(Vegas Studio v11 accepts 50p in addition to the 50i of previous versions. DYOR.)

SWR246 a good price, I only wish that model suited my needs. Good Luck.

Yes 50P is the only frame rate that wont play it files in my PS3 blu ray players.i can edit 50P with other frame raates on a time line but it is slower to render for me,this is why i stick with 25P/ or 50i,720P on my set up is ok for slow motion but lacks sharpness somewhat.

[Gramuk]

Well, I've taken the plunge and ordered an Panasoinic X900 and a couple of 32Gb memory cards. So along with the free extra battery offer from Panasonic I should be reasonably set up for a little while anyway. Camera is really to replace a trusty old Sony DC-9 Mini DV and is for family holidays etc. (nothing professional). So, I'm all set up with my new i7 PC system and hopefully will start having a little fun and start making movies. I just also bought a new Panasonic 46inch plasma to watch it all on. Finally i get my kit up to date! for a few months anyway. i'm sure I'll be posting questions in the forums as I go along but that's the fun of it all.

[Gramuk]

HD X900 arrived today. Have to say I'm impressed with the unit after having such a small play. I was really worried after viewing uploaded video's that the image appeared to "stutter" when moving across the screen but I guess that must just have been an issue with viewing from the Web. Got it on-line for 800.00 with a 3 yr warranty, carry case and a 4Gb memory card (which will go into my young sons digi camera). Picture is stunning on the 46" plasma. Just waiting on a 49mm UV filter and the 32Gb memory cards turning up. Files appear to load up into Vegas and an older DVD movie factory 6 plus with no issues. Hope to have a good play over the weekend as there's a WW II exhibition a the local beach. So far none of the fears and time to read the manual while it's charging!

[12harry]

+ + + + Glad you're happy with your purchase. + + + +

However, a word of warning if you intend to use it at the seaside (Post #27) - be sure to keep it wrapped up until the last moment and pref in a snap-shut food container. There are lots of ways sand/salt can find their way inside and that's not good. Connectors and so on should be protected.

BTW you did get another battery, didn't you?
- This you may need.

[Dogfaced]

Has anyone seen a decent review of the Sony HDR-CX730E and do you think x900 is better or worse?

[12harry]

Sony looks nice, but on Amazon, it's £120 more . . . look out for reviews.
It has the usual Audio in-out and is 24MP in stills, so that's quite something . . . not sure about sensor-size, but expect it not that big . . . so how do they get 24MP - is this with interpolation, I wonder?

I saw a Sony camcorder (released?) that moves the whole lens assembly at the front to stab the picture - this was claimed to be much better than in-lens, which is normal . . . but not seen more reviews etc. I think it uses miniature gyros . . . Anyone?