cheap miniDV cam recommendations, picture is priority

hello! my first /real/ post on this forum, hope you guys can help me out!

I'm in need of a dirt cheap (probably second hand from ebay?) firewire miniDV camera, I'm basically after the best combination of low end picture quality and price! sound is unimportant for this application.

I know that compared to something like a DSR-570, or even XLS the picture quality will suck, but I need something that will get me half descent pictures on a pal TV ( more likely projector for now...) when burnt to DVD and wont break the bank if its lost, dropped or blown up ( all of which are disturbingly likely!!)

I'd like to get some night shots with it, I've heared that sony models are better at this ( talking low -budget cameras here, I know it will suck regardless, but whatever I can get)

what models would you chaps recommend for this purpose, I /could/ budget £400 but I'd much prefer £200 or so ( at second hand prices if its worthwhile?) I've had a quick trawl around but I'm not really much wiser, your opinions are highly appreciated!

Would you even consider hi8? (you might be able to pick up a new hi8 for this money) picture quality is reasonably close to DV, as long as you capture through y/c.

A new basic D8 would cost around £250 with super nightshot, giving you dv res & firewire out.

If it's for an extreme application most viewers will forgive limitations of lower video format if the action/access makes it worthwhile.

The best reality tv ever was BBC's 'Video Nation' and 'Extreme Lives', usually shot by amatuers on low band equipment, but the strong stories and unparalled access made compulisve viewing, which wuld't have been possible with full crews (ref: 'Looking for Kat' & 'Berzerk in the Antarctic'). It's often about content over style. That said, used properly a D8 can give broadcastable output.

model 255, dv out infra red nightshot is £259.90

model 265 as above with DV-in is £279.90

miniDV is really the best option as one of the uses of the camara will be as a chaep 'miniDV' deck for more expensive camaras in the long run, its an intresting idea though!

Hi,
First time posting, v. glad of the good advice I've read so far. As my concern is almost exactly the same as Nutt's first post, I'll add my post here.

I live in Ireland, and because we're hit by 21% VAT, camcorders etc are a that much pricier. I need a digicam with DV In/Out for general family use, so my overriding concerns are (i) picture quality and (ii) PC edit & re-record to tape for TV playback. I've narrowed it down to the Sony DCR-TRV 265E vs the Canon MV730, and am inclined to go with the Sony as a value proposition. I know the Canon is a newer format and has a slightly higher spec, but so long as DIgital8 is supported for a few more years and the Sony image quality is good, I'm not worried.

This is my first camcorder purchase. How does it sound?

Thanks,
tundish