Panasonic TM900, SD900, HS900 owners club

PhilipL

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Hi

Who is thinking of getting one of these camcorders?

I thought I would start a thread relating to these new models as I shall be getting one once they are available.

SimplyDV.co.uk | Camcorder Reviews, News, How-to and More! has a TM900 and are testing it so hopefully an early review soon.

The usual retailers are showing these models for pre-ordering but no stock as yet.

Anyone interested in the 3D aspect? Don't think I am.

Regards

Phil
 
hope to get tm 900 next week if it's available. was thinking about hs900 but decided that tm should be good enough for me. what do you know about low light performance? could not find any specific info.
 
Hi

Phil - What attracts you to the TM900 over the 700 if you're not really interested in the 3D aspect?

Nothing in particular except it is the current model I suppose. I've got the TM300 and really like the 50p recording and wide angle lens of the 700/900.

There are some improvements over the 700, fan noise seems to be a thing of the past (or reduced to the point of it not being an issue) and low light improvements seem to work according to some early feedback from simplydv.co.uk.

Don't get me wrong if there was no 900, I'd be purchasing the 700 now :thumbsup:

hope to get tm 900 next week if it's available. was thinking about hs900 but decided that tm should be good enough for me. what do you know about low light performance? could not find any specific info.

Does seem to better according to simplydv.co.uk. Stock is showing for the 11 Feb now on ukdigital.co.uk website which sort of ties in with what Amazon are currently saying at 2-4 weeks. Ukdigital were saying being of Feb, then the 4th and now the 11th.

Regards

Phil
 
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Hi

Tip: Converting 1080/50p to 1080/25p for Blu-ray.

If you want to keep the high resolution and progressive picture quality you can get Blu-ray to play 1080/25p rather than 1080/50i which sees your footage being interlaced. This will also give you a film type aesthetic.

Now 25p isn't supported by Blu-ray either, it supports 24p. So we use what is called Psf which is simply putting 25p into 50i.

This is what you need to do with Sony Vegas/Movie Studio in order to get this done correctly:

1) All the 1080/50p video clips need to be under sampled, without doing this you will end up with either interlaced footage at 50i or 25p with two frames merged together which doesn't look that good and defeats the point. To do this, right click the video track, select properties, and under the Video Event tab set the 'under sample' rate to 0.5. This means Sony Vegas drops every other frame which gives us 25p on output.

2) Make the movie, select the Blu-ray 1920x1080 50i MPEG2 setting, make other quality adjustments as required, and set the video to Progressive which flags the video as containing progressive frames inside 50i, this will be accepted by DVD Architect without re-encoding. If you use another package to author then the progressive flag may not be accepted forcing the package to re-encode, in which case set to Top field first and treat like interlaced footage. It will de-interlace on your TV as 25p regardless.

The above will give you a true 25p output, as though you filmed it that way originally. Without step 1, you get 25p output by merging together 2 fields at a time together which isn't the same thing at all.

Regards

Phil
 
Pana 700 - er, what's this "fan-noise?"
Also, reading tec. spec I don't see the 900 has sockets for mic/earphones, (this is a Plus for the 700) - I'm not convinced about supplimentary 3D lenses, but they've not been reviewed enough, nor have I seen any in a practical shoot. I thought the Pana 3D camcorder combination has been out at least 6months - indeed I've seen them discounted from the entry-price abt. £1500

Pana could help consumers by simplifying model numbers...it's getting rather confusing.

I'm waiting for a camcorder with the focus ring calibrated in ft/m., - but it may be a long time.
 
Hi


I'm waiting for the SD700 which is £719 from Amazon but waiting for stock, it is as low as £705 and in stock via a reseller.

Pana 700 - er, what's this "fan-noise?"
Also, reading tec. spec I don't see the 900 has sockets for mic/earphones, (this is a Plus for the 700) - I'm not convinced about supplimentary 3D lenses, but they've not been reviewed enough, nor have I seen any in a practical shoot. I thought the Pana 3D camcorder combination has been out at least 6months - indeed I've seen them discounted from the entry-price abt. £1500

Pana could help consumers by simplifying model numbers...it's getting rather confusing.

I'm waiting for a camcorder with the focus ring calibrated in ft/m., - but it may be a long time.

Yes there was some fan noise on the 700/600 series, only noticeable in very quiet environments. The 900 series according to simplydv.co.uk has a completely new fan design and no noise at all now.

Still mic's on camcorders are not the best placed anyway, they are either too far away from the action or the slightest breeze causes terrible wind :laugh: I've got an H1 Handy Recorder and will do sound recording on that for anything critical and it is a very impressive sound quality.

The 900 series does come with mic/headphone sockets.

Regards

Phil
 
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Phil, you don't say "why" the 700 has a fan.....surely only the HDD versions?
Maybe that's why they fitted a mic socket? (or why they didn't bother to fix the fan). However, here I read there is an "image-jitter" issue if you point the 700 camera up/down at 45deg, say. Noticible when mounted on a tripod (eg in a church, perhaps with low-light level). Seems some countries think they can upgrade the 700 software, others (like the UK/Japan) deny there is a problem and deny there is a fix.

Suspicions are that it's the glass stabaliser disk, so some cameras could be OK, depending upon build and settings. There are bound to be variations. (and some users will never use a tripod).
Frankly, Pana-attitude has made me look elsewhere, although if the 900 is an improvement - I may wait until that's out in the UK, unless I buy Sony/Cannon before.

Could I beg a full-report when you get your 900...?
 
Hi

Phil, you don't say "why" the 700 has a fan.....surely only the HDD versions?
Maybe that's why they fitted a mic socket? (or why they didn't bother to fix the fan). However, here I read there is an "image-jitter" issue if you point the 700 camera up/down at 45deg, say. Noticible when mounted on a tripod (eg in a church, perhaps with low-light level). Seems some countries think they can upgrade the 700 software, others (like the UK/Japan) deny there is a problem and deny there is a fix.

Suspicions are that it's the glass stabaliser disk, so some cameras could be OK, depending upon build and settings. There are bound to be variations. (and some users will never use a tripod).
Frankly, Pana-attitude has made me look elsewhere, although if the 900 is an improvement - I may wait until that's out in the UK, unless I buy Sony/Cannon before.

Could I beg a full-report when you get your 900...?

The fan is on all versions, so the heat generated and needing to be got rid off must be from something else than a hard-drive, the assumption is it is the main chip that is doing the decoding that needs cooling. The mic socket has always been a feature on the top of the range of camcorders.

I've read reports of a jitter issue, who knows how many are affected, it may be only be a few people that just happen to search on the Internet and find the same thread to post against.

Panasonic support doesn't seem very good, but that's typical of many companies, and in the UK at least if something doesn't work as advertised or has a fault you send it back for a refund, at least I do, and that's the best feedback you can give a manufacturer :clap:

I will feed back once I get one, just waiting for stock.

Regards

Phil
 
Phil - You probably know I am getting closer and closer to convincing myself the Panny 700/900 is something I need! Initially the 700 was the one, but thinking that this camera will be with me for a good few years has made me nervous about the 700's fan and jitter. Seems to me that the 900 models can be had for approx £100 more..... what's that over the cameras lifetime.....

FYI, not sure if they are in stock (doesn't say they aren't) Bristol Cameras SD900 £699 and TM900 £775....

Panasonic HDC-SD900 Camcorder - Best Price at Bristol Cameras

I too am very interested to find out what you think of the camera.:cool:
 
Hi

I now have the SD900 :clap:

Fan noise, it is there. The fan is around the size of a five pence piece, and any fan that size is going to have to make some whizzy noise I suppose. The fan is off when the camera is cold from switch on, but in a matter of minutes it starts to ramp up. It makes an audible sound which I can hear when it's around half to a metre away from me given no other sound to mask it, and so the microphones do pick it up. I can't compare to the 700 series to say if it is an improvement or not.

Playing back a first test in a quiet room with a computer running (this wasn't me specifically testing for the fan noise at the time), the computer fans were captured along with the unmistakeable whizzy fan which keeps changing it's pitch, probably as it keeps reacting to temperature changes.

Given some other sounds or general ambient noise in the mix I think in most circumstances it will not be noticeable.

I've already made a shroud from some computer sound proofing foam that gets rid of the fan noise altogether for when I might need it but still allows the fan to draw air in :thumbsup: I'm not sure why Panasonic didn't mount it further inside with a tube to draw the air in, as it is at the moment, the fan is flush up against the grill, probably a space issue.

It isn't a deal breaker for me as I also have a H1 Handy Recorder which is fantastic and can be placed nearer to where it's needed and I just stitch the sound in when editing, and already have a quick work around if required.

Not to keen on the new battery charging arrangements, some may find it an improvement, however it is clearly a cost cutting measure as they have bundled the cheapest OEM power supply which plugs into the camcorder and you have to charge the battery in situ now. I'm not too keen on using a £700 camcorder as a battery charger and leaving it out in order to charge the battery. It does mean you don't have to remove the battery to connect it to the mains, but the battery only charges when the camcorder is off still.

I think this is mainly to get some extra revenue from the semi-professionals using this type of camera now (because they are so good!) who will need a separate battery charger in order to use one battery while charging a spare. Surprise surprise Panasonic make mention of such an accessory in the manual, we wait to see the cost. Hopefully they will do a bundle, a charger and spare battery for not much more than a battery on its own.

So the negatives out the way :laugh:

It isn't a great deal different from the TM700 in terms of build and styling and button placement seems the same. There is less metal inlay on the 900 series (no doubt saving a few pence on the cost for Panasonic again).

The LCD screen is a big improvement, perfectly sharp and clear for its size (other camcorders tend to have more pixels but I can't see you'd really see the benefit, more of a marketing the numbers).

After having the TM300 the wider angle lens is great to have.

On the TM300 I found evidence of what has been dubbed "bondi blue", which is the green bias on skies and other blues, and the almost green cast to whites in some circumstances (although show me an auto-white balance that gets it right all the time). A manual white balance cleared up the whites but skies could still shift into being bondi blue although I personally rarely saw or noticed it, however there were some worst case examples posted on the internet, sometimes the blue would shift obviously while recording. I've had limited testing with blue sky outside, but setting up the same test of blue items in the house which did confuse the TM300 especially on auto white balance under halogen lights, I've seen no evidence whatsoever of this green shift on the 900. This seems to mirror the results from other owners of the 900 series in Russia which seemed to see this problem more than anyone, probably due to their weather maybe, lots of bright blue sky and white snow.

I'm sure the bondi blue issue was just a bug in the firmware (it can't be a mechanical problem), a shame Panasonic haven't owned up to it and issued a fix on previous models.

It ships with version 3 of HD Writer AE, seems okay for what it is, some may find it useful although it did a horrible job of down converting HD to DVD SD on a test, although lots of software does a bad job of this.

Picture quality is excellent as expected on the 50p mode, I'm sure it's no improvement on the 700 series, probably exactly the same.

Panasonic have made claims of up to 45% less noise in low light, while I can't translate that in any meaningful way to what I see, there is a noticeable improvement over the TM300 in low light. Dropping down to 1/25 shutter speed and for indoor shots of people without too much wild movement, you can get away without needing much light and get something quite pleasing.

As for 3D, not interested, I see 3D and it's support on consumer camcorders as no more than a bit of gimmick really and 3D has been the "next big thing" since as long as I can remember! Perhaps it might find a niche in the porn genre and drive some sales, but I can't really see people messing about aligning lenses and trying to frame shots to get a dubious 3D effect.

Any other questions fire away.

Regards

Phil
 
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Thanks I wont be joining your club ( for now) but Its nice to be " in the know" as the companies are far more stingy these days to loan us kit to trial and blog if we are not effusively " Pro " thier kit:rolleyes:
I did like the TM350 though back in the day ( not that long but it seem so) and actually used a AG HVX200 .. a totally different class of kit!!!
If only a smaller AG HMC41 existed... and HD writer was rewritten from ground up Panasonic are you listening???:p
 
Phil - I was looking forward to your initial review. Must say I'm a bit disappointed. Not with your efforts but what you report.

So this fan noise that was expected to be cured certainy isn't. At best improved but still an issue in quiet environments.

So really for me it comes down to the LCD flip display. Bigger and better Res. I've been used to my gs500 screen and pretty much only use it to frame shots. Do I really need a splendid display?

I'm gonna hold out for a little, wait and see what the 700 and 900 prices do.

Any further observations are very welcome

Cheers
 
Still happy with my SD600 then!
 
Phil - I was looking forward to your initial review. Must say I'm a bit disappointed. Not with your efforts but what you report.

So this fan noise that was expected to be cured certainy isn't. At best improved but still an issue in quiet environments.

So really for me it comes down to the LCD flip display. Bigger and better Res. I've been used to my gs500 screen and pretty much only use it to frame shots. Do I really need a splendid display?

I'm gonna hold out for a little, wait and see what the 700 and 900 prices do.

Any further observations are very welcome

Cheers

I would not consider replacing a camcorder just to get a bigger LCD a worthwhile change or expense.

It's hard to know what to say about the new 900 models as they are as good as the same as the 700 series. Still have a fan that can be picked up by the mics, very very similar in design and button placement, and very similar performance. The only thing that seems to be fixed is the handling of blues which is well reported on the older models. Even then while I could see there was a problem on my TM300 regarding this I never really noticed it on actual footage, and no one has ever commented on odd looking skies or green casts, and the sky has always looked okay to me and all I get is "wow" regarding the HD quality. There were some pretty bad examples posted here where whites were basically green so a problem somewhere, but I've not seen that.

For me moving up from the TM300 I just thought I'd wait for the SD900. I wanted the wider angle lens and 50p recording which the TM300 didn't have. The slightly better handling of low light is welcome, but it's still a camcorder (like most of them) struggling to cope in dim light, just making a slightly better job of it than before.

Don't get me wrong I think the SD900 is a great camcorder and will produce some wonderful footage, it just seems to be that Panasonic have run out of ways they can improve these camcorders, certainly at the price point they sit. The one big criticism of the prior models regarding the fan, just hasn't been addressed in my view, probably because they have just spent the time on the gimmicky 3D aspect. The obvious cost savings of the new charging method is a bit disappointing considering these camcorders are still a sizeable chunk of money.

senu said:
I did like the TM350 though back in the day ( not that long but it seem so) and actually used a AG HVX200 .. a totally different class of kit!!!

And a totally different class of price ;)

Regards

Phil
 
Well Phil - if the price is similar in a few weeks when the 900 is more widely available then I might go for it (say £100 max difference). If the 700 starts to get cheaper then I may well go for that. For some reason I'm drawn to the TM's with their built in flash memory. Not even sure why!

If I do go for the 700 I shall do some extreme testing of this bondi blue issue and then send the camera back in the first 7 days if it shows.....
 
Hi

You can currently get the SDT750 for £700 (Amazon), with the 3D lens which you could take that off and sell it on Ebay as there will be a growing market for them with the new models going on sale. If you got £100 for the 3D attachment on Ebay that's made that a pretty good deal even taking into account the cost of a 32G memory card , I'd be tempted if I hadn't already got the SD900.

Regards

Phil
 
Is the SD700 the same as the SD750 except the 750 has the 3D lens? The SD700 can be got for £550 if you google it. That looks the bargain at the moment to me.

The best price for the SD900 seems to be £700..... £150 more than the SD700.

I should just do what you did Phil, buy the bloody thing! I tend to mull over things too much.... I'll be back on the "keep my GS500" band wagon in a few days!:facepalm:
 
Hi

Is the SD700 the same as the SD750 except the 750 has the 3D lens? The SD700 can be got for £550 if you google it. That looks the bargain at the moment to me.

The best price for the SD900 seems to be £700..... £150 more than the SD700.

I should just do what you did Phil, buy the bloody thing! I tend to mull over things too much.... I'll be back on the "keep my GS500" band wagon in a few days!:facepalm:

The SDT750 is closer to being the SD900 from what I can tell.

Sometimes you just have to jump in, you have the 7 day distance selling act should you want to return it for any reason :)

Regards

Phil
 
I also now have an SD900 and initially very pleased, especially since this is an upgrade from an old canon DAT tape based recorder.

Fan noise is there but hardly noticeable unless room is quiet so not a big issue for me.

Yes I could have probably got the 700 fr cheaper, but I like my toys :devil:

The only gripe that I have is that the HD Writer 3.0 software seems to have problems on my win7 PC. It just crashes when I try to import video from any source. It could well be my PC, I'll need to try it on my laptop.

(note: also looking in background at Sony Vegas etc since HD writer looks a tad basic).
 
Hi

I also now have an SD900 and initially very pleased, especially since this is an upgrade from an old canon DAT tape based recorder.

Fan noise is there but hardly noticeable unless room is quiet so not a big issue for me.

Yes I could have probably got the 700 fr cheaper, but I like my toys :devil:

The only gripe that I have is that the HD Writer 3.0 software seems to have problems on my win7 PC. It just crashes when I try to import video from any source. It could well be my PC, I'll need to try it on my laptop.

(note: also looking in background at Sony Vegas etc since HD writer looks a tad basic).

Welcome to the club:hiya:

I'd certainly recommend Sony MovieStudio HD Platinum 10. You can get this for around £35.00 on Amazon. It's pretty much Sony Vegas for a lot less money, there is a learning curve though as there has been no dumbing down like some consumer oriented editors.

The great thing is demo's are available so you can find one that suits.

I can't see HD Writer being useful for very much to be honest, don't waste too much time on it. You can easily transfer footage across just by browsing the card, go to Private->AVCHD->BDMV->Stream and all your videos are in there, just drag and copy across and they simply drop into the editor

I agree the fan noise shouldn't really be an issue for anyone.

Regards

Phil
 
ah good tip - I did download the trial version of Vegas and it looked pretty comprehensive if a little advanced for my needs right now. I'll check out MovieStudio.

regarding getting data off of the cards, yup I already figured that and I am more than happy to transfer in this way. I then have full control of where I put the files.
 
er, correction ... I already downloaded Vegas MovieStudio HD Platinum 10 and not the full Vegas :oops:

I'll have a bit of a play around with it this weekend when I have some time.
 

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