[llama]

Originally Posted by teamleader

I wonder if someone can help answer a couple of things. I am thinking of buying a TM700 and was wondering if any movie clips taken on the card will play on my tv(panny G20)?
I saw somebody mention using Splash Pro in an earlier thread, does this do the same job as Twonky?

Not sure if the 1080p50 clips will playback on a SD card into the TV directly. But the 1080i should, the are of the AVCHD standard

[tonyblade]

Hi guys, I'm going to upgrade my 5year old gs75 to the tm700, one question- at the moment I burn footage shot on the gs75 to DVD, how much of an improvement do you think I'll see when I do this on the tm700? Will Just be doing this until I can get a few cards ! Thanks Tony .

[senu]

It will depend on your encoder
Anecdotally , HDV footage downscaled to DV often looked better than natively shot DV (all HDV camcorders can shoot DV or downconvert while capturing) but AVCHD to SD mpeg2 quality is software dependent

[tonyblade]

Thanks senu, I guess I will just try it and see how it comes out, I use a Sony 900dvr to do this, which was top of the class about 6 yrs ago, this hobby moves to fast doesent it! Lol

[MartinPerry]

Hi guys,
Sorry for jumping on this thread, but it seems that we all have the same problems and questions in mind.
I am planning to buy either the HDC SD700 or SD600 and am concerned about the editing capabilities of computer software for 1080p (1080/50p).
I generally record 1-2 hours of filming, and then use Windows Movie Maker to stitch together various sections to make a 5-10 minute movie. In this way I get a "taster movie" which I save as a WMV file (to burn onto DVD) and generally discard the original camera files. In the past this has all been Standard Definition recording, (AVI files).

Now stepping up to the newer technology, I would like to do the same with a new HD camera. I like the idea of storing the files on SD cards, and then importing them into my PC to edit the full footage into a smaller clip.

1. Which editing software currently deals efficiently with 1080p recordings? Which one is easiest to use (bear in mind I have only been working WMM)?
2. What is the recommendation for PC capability in order to edit these 1080p recordings?
3. Which SD card would be best - SDHC or SDXC? What is the difference and what card rating would be best?
4. Once you have your final HD movie on your PC, can you still burn it to a standard def DVD and watch it in a standard DVD player? If yes, will the quality be terrible? As I don't yet have a HD DVD or Blu-ray player, I hope my old DVD will make do before I upgrade.

Obviously I want to be prepared for changes in the future to technology. I would imagine that if there is not sufficient software currently available (Dec 2010) to edit 1080p recordings efficiently, then the best idea with the SD700 would be to record in 1080i. Then, when better software appears on the market, switch your camera from 1080i to 1080p. Failing all of that, is there a comparable camera without flash memory (records onto SD cards) that just records in 1080i. My thinking is that this would be cheaper for a few years before we upgrade.

I would really appreciate any of you advice of the above; it seems that you all have experience that I could really benefit from.
Many thanks in advance (and sorry that I'm posting to such an old thread).
Martin

[ernesto]

Originally Posted by Lisame

Thank you Guessie!

http://hdcam.web-pda.info/ is an amazing site!

p.s Do you know a good video codec and player for playing 1080x60p? I tried VLC player and it was a bit shocky. I have a quadecore 2.2ghz, 6GB DDR3 ram and a 8800 GT with 512mb.

Yet I am sure my WD mediaplayer can handle it!

DiVAC is one of the fastest software decoder avilable.

Works well in MPC or PotPlayer.

[senu]

Originally Posted by ernesto

DiVAC is one of the fastest software decoder avilable.

Works well in MPC or PotPlayer.

Its not free though and TBH he has subsequent to that post used a very decent free one Id suggested

[ernesto]

Originally Posted by Gussie

...
MEGAUPLOAD - The leading online storage and file delivery service the original mts video of this YouTube upload ...

YouTube - Panasonic HDC-TM700

It was this video that persuaded me to buy an SD700.
...
Gussie

Lovely cat, isn't it? I'm glad you like it.

[ernesto]

Originally Posted by senu

Its not free though and TBH he has subsequent to that post used a very decent free one Id suggested

Like to know that too.

[senu]

Originally Posted by ernesto

Like to know that too.

Splash

although MPC-HC isnt bad too

[ernesto]

Thanks senu.

MPC's internal decoder is ffmpeg based, not known for speed. You can get away with a C2D 2.2GHz using DiVAC.

Not sure about Splash, but it's not DS filter based.

Best regards.

[senu]

Originally Posted by ernesto

Thanks senu.

MPC's internal decoder is ffmpeg based, not known for speed. You can get away with a C2D 2.2GHz using DiVAC.

Not sure about Splash, but it's not DS filter based.

Best regards.

Try Splash anyway:
It is fine not just a codec but also player, even better with hardware GPU assist.. and Free

[MartinPerry]

Gussie,

Thanks for all your helpful info. Is this still the case for 1080/50p editing? I am looking to buy the SD600 camera, but if I cannot properly edit in 1080/50p, then I may chose to film in 1080i.

If you think that a particular editing software will work with 1080p, then please let me know. Also, what would you recommend as the minimum operating requirement for my PC? I have a Dual core 2.7 GHz processor with 2 GB of RAM.

Many thanks,
Martin

Originally Posted by Gussie

There is no fix at the moment.

The Panasonic HDC-SD700 camera records not only in four AVCHD (1920x1080) modes - HE 5 Mbps, HX 8 Mbps, HG 13Mbps, and HA 17Mbps, but also shoots at 1080/50p at 28 Mbps. The high 28Mbps data rate at 50fps is an issue.

Panasonic use a very obscure codec - MPEG-4 Part 10 High Profile Level 4.2 and this is affecting everyone who owns this camera.

Whilst the 1080p footage is superb and plays smoothly directly from the camera - very little stuff out there can handle it from hardware media players to software players and editors.

Also it seems GPU acceleration doesn't seem to have yet supported this codec - so currently, even with high end graphics cards you are better off switching to software mode and relying on CPU grunt to playback these 1080p50 files.

I've tried using

Windows 7 WMP 11
MPC with CoreAVC 2.0
Power DVD 10 Ultra
Splash lite
VLC

and with hardware acceleration enabled all give frame drops.

For me Cyberlink PowerDVD 10 Ultra II gives the smothest playback in software mode. But this may vary according to PC platform - others say Splash Lite works best or even the supplied Panasonic HD Writer AE 2.1.

It's disappointing no hardware acceleration is available to play the superb 1080p footage this camcorder is capable of.

Another avenue is to see if any of the Blu-Ray players out there with network or USB functionality could handle these files eg

Sony BDP-S370
LG BD565

Gussie

[ernesto]

Tired splash on my "CPU challenged" C2D 2.0GHz T7300 santa rosa laptop and was quite impressed. CPU usage was about 5% higher than DiVAC. So I would guess a 2.2/2.4GHz CPU would be sufficient for HS700 1920x1080/60p video playback.

[=adrian=]

At last my sd700 been delivered today. My missus is very happy. Charging my battery now, as I couldn't even switch it on yet. Will report back when I see the 1080p 50 quality on my TV/PC. I'm sure I'll have plenty of questions sooner or later

[=adrian=]

I've got a question. I want to record a content from TV. How do I record audio? I was thinking about connecting my amp and camcorder? Cable plugged into headphones slot in amp and into mic slot in camcorder. 2ch stereo will do. Is that good idea? Any other suggestions?

[senu]

Originally Posted by =adrian=

I've got a question. I want to record a content from TV. How do I record audio? I was thinking about connecting my amp and camcorder? Cable plugged into headphones slot in amp and into mic slot in camcorder. 2ch stereo will do. Is that good idea? Any other suggestions?

Its a good idea and I dpubt if any better exists but you need to experiment with volume settings
You may also get a feed of the TV itself for comparison

[=adrian=]

Originally Posted by senu

Its a good idea and I dpubt if any better exists but you need to experiment with volume settings
You may also get a feed of the TV itself for comparison

Thanks Senu! I'll try that then!

[12harry]

Wow! This Video-ing is really complicated.
The discussion is v interesting, however no-one has asked "what" he intends to use the camcorder "for". This is the big question. One Post suggested time lapse, so if the camera has that facility (some JVC claim this), then it should put the thing into "standby" just before taking the shot. However, this can cause exposure errors as the auto struggles to expose the important bits correctly.

Another aspect was touched on- and I'd like to add this:-

(refer to Motorsport and rolling shutters) . . . . - - - - - - - - - - - I know It's a year later, but the Manufacturers are forcing us to use the "new CMOS technology" -
In the examples the "Older tech" appears to be radically better - so much so that no-one will want anything else....so I conclude the footage is not showing the "improvement" rather it sets out to prove the older camcorder is more than a match/better.
Unfortunately, the Market has moved on. It only matters to bring back good footage, so it may req. a different approach to achieve the stable pic we want.
It would be useful if experienced folks could address this issue, rather than suggest we buy old models (which are almost impossible to get)

I don't know so, but suspect that a fundamental anti-vibration mount would help, something like a rubber suspension cradle, extra mass, perhaps with some stickyness (like lossy bean-bag - or better= oil-filled dashpots). Only then, with the camera mounted correctly, can you dismiss the new tech. The motorboat footage showed the Panasonic OIS to be very good.....but these technologies only work well within certain types of vibration. (i.e those designed for). Extreme sport isn't on everyones menu, I guess.

If you are a pro-sports reporter and need steady-shots, then "why" aren't you using "Pro-gear" instead of hoping an amateur camcorder will do? I've seen good quality footage, but the techniques used to record must suit the situation. That footage in the car was awful - looked like the camera was bolted to the metalwork . . . . . . why do that . . . . an assistant cameraman will introduce considerable smoothing, due to human ability and our shock absorbing body needed when running (to keep our eye-view steady ), after all when you go running you don't see a vibrating view, do you?

I read somewhere that for extreme sport "Skydiving" electronic stab is better than OIS, although normally OIS is better - the logic seems to the excessive amount of vibration - perhaps electronic has the edge - although "always" it means throwing away pixels, which is why OIS is better, usually.

Incidently OIS doesn't "move the whole lens" - I understand it's a small spinning glass disc (like a Gyro, inside the lens) which stays put as the lens moves with the vibration, hence the image is kept in the same place - but obviously there is a limit to its ability. Because it's small it requires little power to spin, but as always there are limits....and I suspect that's part of the problem with these comparison footages.

In conclusion, the cameras must be mounted appropriately for their technology (no good making them "the same" however scientific this might seem)...then compare the best they can achieve.....the CCD sensor should be better in noise-terms and I think this is the reason Manufacturers have gone over to them. Pro gear sticks with CMOS cause that's largely overcome by large-aperture lenses (and pros know how to use focus), and there is a lighting engineer to fix the light-levels.

+++ I wonder what folks(here) think ... now that these older cameras are no longer available...?
What methods cut vibrations...?
(for extreme/sports use).

[senu]

The Ops post os very old now an Im sure the "What" has been done
as for CMOS / CCs . Im not sure what the answer is
i have a now ancient Sony FX 1 HDv CCD x3 , an even olde Sony Vx2100 SD CCD x3 aNd the a HC1 CMOS
Rogs is a CCD evangelist and I have used n EX1 ( XDCAM with CMOS lovely kit
I think the answer is to be aware what give rubbish results and adjust one videoing technique

Since CMOS or 3MOS seems here to stay we have to modify shooting TBH.

[rogs]

Originally Posted by senu

Rogs is a CCD evangelist

Makes me sound like a vicar!!


OK, so the CMOS/ CCD 'thing' has rather slipped into the background here on the forum recently.
I think that is probably because:

a) There are no more consumer camcorders with CCD sensors. (There are still one or two compact zooms, that do AVCHD lite with CCDs, but that's about it!), so there's no point in worrying about it.

b) Faster scan speeds, and other parallel action techniques on newer models, mean that rolling shutter isues are much less of a problem than they were previously.

Of the 3 aspects of rolling shutter - skew, flash banding and wobble (or 'jello') - it's only really jello that is the real pain. The others can be largely dealt with in software.
Unfortunately, an OIS doesn't help with 'jello', so it's down to scan speeds and mounting details, to help with the problem.

The 'classic' you tube clips showing the worst effects of jello are nearly always from early CMOS camcorders, and are often staged just to show the effect in it's worst light.

Lets face it, most people would never notice in most footage!!

I'm still glad my camcorder has a 3x CCD though .....

[senu]

Originally Posted by rogs

Makes me sound like a vicar!!


OK, so the CMOS/ CCD 'thing' has rather slipped into the background here on the forum recently.
I think that is probably because:

a) There are no more consumer camcorders with CCD sensors. (There are still one or two compact zooms, that do AVCHD lite with CCDs, but that's about it!), so there's no point in worrying about it.

b) Faster scan speeds, and other parallel action techniques on newer models, mean that rolling shutter isues are much less of a problem than they were previously.

Of the 3 aspects of rolling shutter - skew, flash banding and wobble (or 'jello') - it's only really jello that is the real pain. The others can be largely dealt with in software.
Unfortunately, an OIS doesn't help with 'jello', so it's down to scan speeds and mounting details, to help with the problem.

The 'classic' you tube clips showing the worst effects of jello are nearly always from early CMOS camcorders, and are often staged just to show the effect in it's worst light.

Lets face it, most people would never notice in most footage!!

I'm still glad my camcorder has a 3x CCD though .....

I was pulling your leg I also have 3XCCD but I wont lose a lot of sleep when they are no more as by then hopefully CMOS/ 3MOS would have become better

[=adrian=]

Is it possible to connect TV/game console/AV receiver straight to SD700 and record the content? I would like to record PS3 video (and sound) without using camcorder's lens.

I have tried connecting mini HDMI to HDMI cable, but could not record any content. This is how conections looked:


PS3 --- (HDMI out to HDMI in) ---> AV Receiver --- (HDMI out to mini HDMI) --> SD700


I suspect the mini HDMI in SD700 slot is only for output.

Then I've tried supllied Component cable to AV Multi on camcorder. Same, no picture other than picture from camcorder's lens.


PS3 --- (HDMI out to HDMI in) ---> AV Receiver --- (Component out to AV Multi) ---> SD700


Again looks like the AV Multi is only for signal output.


Is there any way to connect PS3/TV straight to camcorder and record its content without using its lens? Am I missing something obvious?

[=adrian=]

I think I've found confirmation in THIS review:

While it's a shame that there's no A/V input, a full selection of analogue and digital output connections are available, including HDMI, USB and component/composite video.

Looks like I will have to play a little bit more with settings. I recorded couple of clips yesterday using SD700's lens with both manual and auto settings and found awful lot of artefacts in picture. Though I have only tried 1080p/50 mode (I belive GT5 is 1080p/60 most of times).