Sony HC1E Audio problems!!

121casa · 15-11-2009, 4:45 PM

Hi, I have a Sony HC1e which I used for a concert recording. the sound is reverberating (i'm not sure it thats the correct term but audio is just too lousy). i've used the Sony Hi8 Tr50 which was made in the mid 90's and that seemed to have coped far better. Why is it that a far advanced cam cannot cope with loud sounds. I would stick to the hi8 but the picture quality is very poor in low light. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanx.

rogs · 15-11-2009, 5:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 121casa

Why is it that a far advanced cam cannot cope with loud sounds.

Simply because audio is seen as a 'degradable' feature by the camera manufacturers, in their attempt to keep prices down. There are very few mid and lower range camcorders with external mic sockets any more.

I see that the Sony HC1E only records audio in the MP2 format, whereas I'm betting that your old camera used 16 bit linear PCM. In addition, I'm guessing that there will be more 'automatic' gain setting on the newer model -effectively limiting the dynamic range of the recorded audio before overload.

All adds up to inferior audio.

Having said all of that, the 'reverberation' you are describing is almost certainly a result of the microphones being too far from the audio source. You will note that the pros will always (even just for spoken interviews) use mics very close to the source. Otherwise you just record the room 'echo' along with the sounds you are after.
And, in case you're wondering, there's very little you can do about it afterwards - getting rid of reverberation is a bit like trying to extract the egg from a baked cake -not easy!

What is becoming more popular is recording the audio separately - using a solid state recorder, like the Zoom H2, or the Olympus LS10 or the Roland R09 ...the list goes on.

And then mixing with, or replacing, the camera audio in your video editor. You do need to 'sync' the new audio, but that's no big deal once you've done it once!

There are very few good audio recordings made with the mics at a long distance from the source.
Unless of course you are trying to capture the reverberation as well - like recording a Cathedral organ, for example.

chrishull3 · 15-11-2009, 5:24 PM

The HC1[i owned one] Sound is not as bad as yours sounds it should be as good as the old 8mm, i used my rode stereo with mine but apart from wind noise the on board was not too bad, cams like the SR12 have better though.A good test is try and record a bagpipe band my cam coped before i bought the rode.

121casa · 15-11-2009, 6:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rogs

Simply because audio is seen as a 'degradable' feature by the camera manufacturers, in their attempt to keep prices down. There are very few mid and lower range camcorders with external mic sockets any more.

I see that the Sony HC1E only records audio in the MP2 format, whereas I'm betting that your old camera used 16 bit linear PCM. In addition, I'm guessing that there will be more 'automatic' gain setting on the newer model -effectively limiting the dynamic range of the recorded audio before overload.

All adds up to inferior audio.

Having said all of that, the 'reverberation' you are describing is almost certainly a result of the microphones being too far from the audio source. You will note that the pros will always (even just for spoken interviews) use mics very close to the source. Otherwise you just record the room 'echo' along with the sounds you are after.
And, in case you're wondering, there's very little you can do about it afterwards - getting rid of reverberation is a bit like trying to extract the egg from a baked cake -not easy!

What is becoming more popular is recording the audio separately - using a solid state recorder, like the Zoom H2, or the Olympus LS10 or the Roland R09 ...the list goes on.

And then mixing with, or replacing, the camera audio in your video editor. You do need to 'sync' the new audio, but that's no big deal once you've done it once!

There are very few good audio recordings made with the mics at a long distance from the source.
Unless of course you are trying to capture the reverberation as well - like recording a Cathedral organ, for example.

Yes, the old cam was 16 bit linear PCM; so as far as pic quality is concerned we have progressed but with audio we've gone backwards after nearly 20 years; thats progress. Thanks very much for your time and help.

rogs · 15-11-2009, 6:43 PM

From what chrishull3 says there must be an external mic socket on the HC1.

Silly me, I took Sony's specification sheet as being accurate. About half way down this page:

HDR-HC1E (HDRHC1E) : Technical Specifications : Camcorders : Sony

In the 'jacks' section, it quite clearly states - 'audio input -no'

The manual shows of course that there is an audio (mic) input.
My bad - sorry about that!

So using something like the Rode - or any other directional mic - will of course improve the situation. But I still stick with the comment that to effectively get rid of unwanted room 'reverberation', you still need to ideally get the mic near to the source.

**senu** · 15-11-2009, 7:39 PM

Rogs without prejudice to your excellent suggestions as to cause of reverb
A few comments

I have an HC1 and it is actually a very good camcorder whose audio has never been a Problem. It was a high end prosumer model in its day and has a lot of manual control
It has mic-in too and it does Selectable 12 bit/16 bit audio PCM for DV

It is the The HDV audio which is the Mpeg1 layer 2 ( 16 bits) 48k stereo) which is fair considering the HDV format is somwhat compresed at 25mps to get 1hr onto a MiniDV tape
Although I do have the Rode Video mic.. I dont always use it

Actually it also has a very usable manual audio record level too (though default is auto), selectable in the Menu ( which hides a multitude of customisable controls)

Could it be the Op has a faulty one? Still external mic is it

chrishull3 · 16-11-2009, 8:29 AM

Agree but without a good external consumer cams sound are only average and poor in wind, as i said the later SR12 and later models have more vibrant surround sound but i still prefered my RS external.To use a non sony external mic with the HC1 and any sony consumer an adaptor is needed to convert the hotshoe to ordinary mount.

**senu** · 16-11-2009, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrishull3

Agree but without a good external consumer cams sound are only average and poor in wind, as i said the later SR12 and later models have more vibrant surround sound but i still prefered my RS external.To use a non sony external mic with the HC1 and any sony consumer an adaptor is needed to convert the hotshoe to ordinary mount.

Usually £25...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6L-Y-jbiE8&NR=1