[maxipax]

Hi,
Having read and pondered for weeks about new camcorder purchase I decided on a pano sd10. Big mistake!! I use it for home videos family parties and holidays. A lot of which is taken indoors in dimmer lit room than brighter. Having took the sd10 on holiday it was superb outside, but indoors it is really poor. Dark and juddery when played back.
I now need to sell this asap and replace with something that will get the indoor quality back to were I was with my old mindv tape sony I just sold.
Can anyone suggest which one to look at. Was wondering about the Sony cx105 or if I will need to more money in and go to the cx520 or pano tm300. Really wanted to keep budget sensible as I will loose a lot when I try to sell my sd10..
Any help greatly appreciated, as my life is in danger as my wife is about to kill me due to poor footage taken!!!
many thanks max

[senu]

If you want to get better low light, I would not go lower than the Panasonic or Sony 520 TBH
The SD10 was great for many things, low light ability was not one of them but I guess some owners have learnt to live with this limitation but for marital peace and harmony ( and longer life , it seems..)
Dont get the Sony 105
I often get shouted at when I explain to newcomers who just despise tape ( soo old skool....) that often average MiniDV camcorders of yesteryears ( despite being just SD on " tape") were far better able to handle indoor light level , movt ect that these newer kit only seem to be capable of when you get the top end kit

[maxipax]

Hi,
Many thanks for comment, which ones would you recommend if I have to spend more...
regards
max

[senu]

Originally Posted by maxipax

Hi,
Many thanks for comment, which ones would you recommend if I have to spend more...
regards
max

The Panosonics (SD200 and above) but I think that and the Sony 520 are pretty close
A few threads on the Panasonics here, generally well spoken of as all rounders but for low light The Sony 520 gets quite good reviews too.

[visioneer]

Originally Posted by senu

Dont get the Sony 105

Nooooooo!! After the inevitable hours (days..weeks ) of research, I'd decided that the CX105 was probably the best option for my budget. It's available at Jessops for £369, less £60 sony cashback, and also less £20 Jessops 'birthday20' voucher code, meaning its available for £289.

Now, my use is going to be similar to the OP and I'd sort of accepted that the indoor stuff might not be brilliant, but when the 520 (£900) and tm300 (£700) are so much more expensive I had concluded that the low light (I'm beginning to despise that phrase ) performance of the better models was unlikely to be twice or three times as good. Please correct me if I am wrong.

My brother bought the Canon HF200 and I had a go of that indoors at night and it had noise issues too and that is in the £450-£500 bracket similar to the Panasonic SD200.

I had low light noise issues (albeit I didn't consider them to be a problem) when using my old Panasonic NVGS3 (old, v.old MiniDV model that served faithfully until last year) so understand your comments entirely regarding the DV format. I've just spent a good while transferring footage off tape through a HDD based Sony DVD Recorder and I've been impressed with the footage off the tapes that I have taken over the years, even though it is 'just' SD.

So, re 'low light' how do they compare - £300 - £500 - £700 - £900?? At the end of the day, I'll be using mine to record family events etc and I'm not convinced that when looking back at it in 5 years, 10 years, 20 years time that I am going to be too concerned that there is 'noise' on it.

On a separate note, I've also seen the CX105 at globalelectricals in black (which I prefer) but I have never heard of them before and wondered (if I decide to go for the CX105) what people think of them?

[senu]

Originally Posted by visioneer

Nooooooo!! After the inevitable hours (days..weeks ) of research, I'd decided that the CX105 was probably the best option for my budget. It's available at Jessops for £369, less £60 sony cashback, and also less £20 Jessops 'birthday20' voucher code, meaning its available for £289.

Now, my use is going to be similar to the OP and I'd sort of accepted that the indoor stuff might not be brilliant, but when the 520 (£900) and tm300 (£700) are so much more expensive I had concluded that the low light (I'm beginning to despise that phrase ) performance of the better models was unlikely to be twice or three times as good. Please correct me if I am wrong.

You are Probably right but you may not need up to twice the low light performance to have a noticeable improvement
I do have the XR200V for test use and I find its indoor low light very disheartening. Certainly on auto it is dismal. On Manual , it is better, at the expense of noise
It has a small 1/5" sensor which the Bionx and exmor technology could not (IMHO) rescue
My advice to avoid it is in reference to someone who has experienced similar with the SD10.. The Sony will be no better

My brother bought the Canon HF200 and I had a go of that indoors at night and it had noise issues too and that is in the £450-£500 bracket similar to the Panasonic SD200.

The SD 200 is better but that is also a matter of degree

I had low light noise issues (albeit I didn't consider them to be a problem) when using my old Panasonic NVGS3 (old, v.old MiniDV model that served faithfully until last year) so understand your comments entirely regarding the DV format. I've just spent a good while transferring footage off tape through a HDD based Sony DVD Recorder and I've been impressed with the footage off the tapes that I have taken over the years, even though it is 'just' SD

Compared to the more pocket friendly camcorders of today, MiniDV Low light isn't bad at all.

So, re 'low light' how do they compare - £300 - £500 - £700 - £900?? At the end of the day, I'll be using mine to record family events etc and I'm not convinced that when looking back at it in 5 years, 10 years, 20 years time that I am going to be too concerned that there is 'noise' on it.

The increase in price isnt only related to low light performance and things like gps, face recognition, shutter smile make the XR200V costlier than the 106 but Im pretty sure the Video performance is similar
Provision of viewfinder, mic-in, headphone-in Manual focus , ect and TBH better video, dual recording media and better stills ability do bump the price up

Im not advocating spending over the odds but if mixed results lead to using the camcorder less, Spending a bit more may be a good idea
These are usually one off purchases which means the pain will go, eventually
Im sure all these kit will have their friends and folk learn to live with their limitations
.. and some have described them as " memory makers" , not Pro video equipment
but lacklustre performance might induce a degree of limited interest in their use IHO

[maxipax]

Hi,
All very fair comments, I do not mind spending a bit if I have too. I do not want to spend then end up with a worse video footage indoors than I had with my old tape one!!
I wish I never sold it and swapped now. Will I be better off now buying another cheaper tape one from sony to get back to where I was before. Have seen some for about the £200 mark.
Many thanks
max

[Fastwestie]

Hi
A similar request to Visioneer. I posted this a few days ago, but didn't get a response
I'm looking for a camcorder for my girlfriend for her birthday. Having read plenty of posts on the forum and several reviews I am hesitating between:

• Sony HDR-CX105E
• Canon HF200

I can get the Sony for £345 + del - £60 cashback, i.e. £292, while the Canon is £479 + del - £50 cashback i.e. £436. (both from globalelectronics.co.uk

The big question is whether the Canon is worth the extra £144 (or maybe is she worth the extra )?

Also, anyone have experience of globalelectronics.co.uk?

Any advice of help much appreciated

[visioneer]

Yes, I would like to know about globalelectronics too.

Re the 2 camcorders, Jessops is a better bet for the CX105 (I would have no hesitation buying from them as they have a shop about 1 mile from me). They have also confirmed to me that I would have 28 days to return it to the store for a refund (assuming in perfect saleable condition).

They are a little adrift on price for the HF200 though. however, the Sony uses more expensive MS cards (which ones would it need by the way?) so the £144 price difference wouldn't actually be that much when cards etc factored into the equation.

I am tempted to buy the CX105, try it at home briefly and if it's not up to the job, take it back. I can also do a direct comparison with my brothers HF200. Decisions, decisions...

[I_K]

So has anyone bought the CX105 and tried indoors?

I was looking at the Sanyo HD2000 mainly because it has better low light performance due to 1/2.5" sensor, which is bigger than CX105.

However the Sanyo does not have OIS which is a big let down!!!

[visioneer]

See my reply to this thread. Basically the CX105 isn't fantastic indoors to be honest - images are grainy - but this is in the evening/night time when there is no natural light - outdoors and indoors when it's daytime, the footage is very good.