[speckled hen]

hi everyone.
as the title suggests that's exactly how long i have.
it's my daughters 2nd birthday on the 20th of november and i am done not having a camera around to film her. we used to use our panasonic digital camera but my wife dropped it and now the lense is stuck in the out position.
anyway i like my blu ray movies and high def but am not into making my own movies so don't need anything too high end as it would be wasted on me.
i have read about and like the look of the panasonic HDC-HS200. the cheapest i can find it for is £579.99.
i would like to know if i am aiming too high for an amateur who will really only be shooting family footage in the house and on other family type occassions. however i would like it to look beautiful when we watch the footage back on our tv. i do appreciate a good picture but would a cheaper camera suffice for my untrained eye.
any advice would be greatly appreciated as i have very little time left to choose. thanks for listening.

[chrishull3]

Originally Posted by speckled hen

hi everyone.
as the title suggests that's exactly how long i have.
it's my daughters 2nd birthday on the 20th of november and i am done not having a camera around to film her. we used to use our panasonic digital camera but my wife dropped it and now the lense is stuck in the out position.
anyway i like my blu ray movies and high def but am not into making my own movies so don't need anything too high end as it would be wasted on me.
i have read about and like the look of the panasonic HDC-HS200. the cheapest i can find it for is £579.99.
i would like to know if i am aiming too high for an amateur who will really only be shooting family footage in the house and on other family type occassions. however i would like it to look beautiful when we watch the footage back on our tv. i do appreciate a good picture but would a cheaper camera suffice for my untrained eye.
any advice would be greatly appreciated as i have very little time left to choose. thanks for listening.

Well i wont tell what cam to buy the top 3 or even 4 cam makers all make good machines nowadays but i would advise you to get the best you can afford, i dont think you are aiming to high

[speckled hen]

ok thankyou for your reply........

i'm not really sure which way to take this.
i could buy the less affordable panasonic or drop £300 off that price and see what i could get for that. would the picture quality be that much worse or would a guy like me not even notice the difference.
i would buy the panasonic if you could say that the quality of the camera, compared to say anything around the 3 to £400 mark, would be a big jump.
also when comparing cameras side by side from places like currys etc there seems to be very little difference in thier specifications. i really don't want to get shafted by dazzling terminology.
some more guidance would really be appreciated.

[daveb975]

Originally Posted by speckled hen

ok thankyou for your reply........

i'm not really sure which way to take this.
i could buy the less affordable panasonic or drop £300 off that price and see what i could get for that. would the picture quality be that much worse or would a guy like me not even notice the difference.
i would buy the panasonic if you could say that the quality of the camera, compared to say anything around the 3 to £400 mark, would be a big jump.
also when comparing cameras side by side from places like currys etc there seems to be very little difference in thier specifications. i really don't want to get shafted by dazzling terminology.
some more guidance would really be appreciated.

I have been going through a similar process. I have taken some test footage on a Panasonic SD10, which looks fantastic value at £299. I could not really see much difference between that and the SD200 that I ended up buying, but I bought the more expensive machine anyway as it is supposed to have much better capability in lower light (I only tested them in a bright shop)

The low light ability of the SD200 has not impressed me to start with, but I must just be doing something wrong. There is a YouTube clip on the next thread down which show very acceptable low light footage.

As you will be filming your daughter, I am guessing reasonable low light capability will be a priority?

[speckled hen]

thanks for the reply.....

i haven't used an hd camcorder personally so i have no point of reference but i can imagine i'll be shooting inside, outside and wherever my little one chooses to shine for the camera so i guess i need an all round good camera that handles colour and lighting equally......if one exists....and for the right price. i would be very interested to hear more results from you concerning the differences in quality between the 2 cameras as i have no desire to spend 600 on one when i can spend 300 on another that gives an equally impressive result.
also the camera i went for is the same as the sd200 but i the one i was looking at had an internal hdd, 80gb, but i guess the two are the same apart from this detail.
please let me know if you've anything more to report.
cheers

[daveb975]

Originally Posted by speckled hen

also the camera i went for is the same as the sd200 but i the one i was looking at had an internal hdd, 80gb, but i guess the two are the same apart from this detail

That's right. I'd normally recommend going for the flash memory-only machine, but if you can pick the HS200 for £580 it is a much better buy. I paid £550 for the SD200.

[somedarnfool]

I'm in the same position and was thinking about the SD200 which can be picked up from a reputable retailer for under £550. I liked the idea of 3 seperate CMOS chips for better image quality, and less moving parts.

However, for the same price I spotted the Sony TG7ve which also appeals for different reasons - size, aesthetics, smile shutter, onboard memory, GPS.

Question is, will the Panasonic produce a noticeably better quality image, or will I be simply wowed by the HD output from both? I was slightly concerned about negative reports on the Sony's indoor performance.

Don't want to derail the thread but thought the Sony would also be a candidate for speckled hen.

[senu]

Originally Posted by somedarnfool

I'm in the same position and was thinking about the SD200 which can be picked up from a reputable retailer for under £550. I liked the idea of 3 seperate CMOS chips for better image quality, and less moving parts.

However, for the same price I spotted the Sony TG7ve which also appeals for different reasons - size, aesthetics, smile shutter, onboard memory, GPS.

Question is, will the Panasonic produce a noticeably better quality image, or will I be simply wowed by the HD output from both?

Yes, Panasonic have stuck with the 3 chip design for long. It is intrinsically a better design for accurate color but in practice each camorder has to be judged on its own merits and many single chip designs are by no means inferior
The differences are maybe more in the reasons you have given

I was slightly concerned about negative reports on the Sony's indoor performance

I dont think the indoor light performance is.radically better or worse on either but I do like the Panasonic

Don't want to derail the thread but thought the Sony would also be a candidate for speckled hen.

why?

[chrishull3]

Dont let the 3 chip point be the all important fact ie canon 5 & 7ds plus many of the consumer single chip cams have lovely colour perfomance.

[somedarnfool]

why?

Because the Sony is a full HD camera at a similar price point. I'm interested why it's never on anyone's shortlist.

[Dancook]

Originally Posted by somedarnfool

Because the Sony is a full HD camera at a similar price point. I'm interested why it's never on anyone's shortlist.

It went on my shortlist for about 2hours then I bought it I'm rather impulsive you might say. I love the fact that's it's so compact.. easy to carry round with you and start recording very quickly.

[speckled hen]

wow seems like the threads buzzing!!

anyway thanks for all your comments......i am edging still towards spending that extra cash and going for the panny.
i took a look at that sony tg7ve but those designs don't appeal to me.
however i appreciate the suggestion.
could anyone just clarify that if i bought something for around say £300 then the picture quality would be noticably worse compared to the panny.
if this is true i think i'd be happier spending the extra for the quality.
i have a panny plasma but would not want to be considered what i believe is known as a "fanboy".
if there are strong competitors for the panasonic HDC-HS200 then i would be happy to hear about them and happier still to do a bit more research, bearing in mind i now have 16 days left to pick purchase and recieve the camera.
thanks again for all comments!!

[daveb975]

I went to Currys with an SD card and they let me take some test footage on their camcorders to watch and compare at home.

Unfortunately, they didn't have the SD10 on display, but I took some footage with the SD200 and the Canon HF200.

I have now used my SD200 quite a lot. The picture quality in daylight is stunning - very sharp, excellent colours and movement. Indoors, it is a different story - the footage is near unwatchable on my 46" LCD and only bearable on my 19" kitchen TV.

I am disappointed because I paid the extra for the SD200 specifically as I thought it might be better in low light than the SD10. I am going on holiday on the weekend, so I do not have time to test the SD10. I don't want to buy it and find that the daylight quality is below the SD200.

[senu]

Originally Posted by daveb975

I went to Currys with an SD card and they let me take some test footage on their camcorders to watch and compare at home.

Unfortunately, they didn't have the SD10 on display, but I took some footage with the SD200 and the Canon HF200.

I have now used my SD200 quite a lot. The picture quality in daylight is stunning - very sharp, excellent colours and movement. Indoors, it is a different story - the footage is near unwatchable on my 46" LCD and only bearable on my 19" kitchen TV.

I am disappointed because I paid the extra for the SD200 specifically as I thought it might be better in low light than the SD10. I am going on holiday on the weekend, so I do not have time to test the SD10. I don't want to buy it and find that the daylight quality is below the SD200.

I think the low light footage of most of these camcorders is really not vastly different.
Use them within thier limitations and enjoy them
FWIW, poor indoor footage can be tweaked in software..

[daveb975]

Originally Posted by senu

I think the low light footage of most of these camcorders is really not vastly different.
Use them within thier limitations and enjoy them
FWIW, poor indoor footage can be tweaked in software..

Thanks. I have got a Canon HF200 under my desk, as I ordered both camcorders from Amazon to compare. I don't want to break the seal unnecessarily as it will make it difficult to get a full refund. I think I will just send it back on this basis.

Do you think there is a big difference in good or low light between the SD10 and the SD200/300 range? I paid £550 for the SD200, so if I can get similar quality footage from a £299 SD10 then I would swap for it. The build quality on the SD10 is not as good and the 1/6" sensor worries me a bit, but the price and tiny size are nice!

[senu]

The SD10 was really loved for many things but low light was not one of them
I would own one for sheer desirability if the price was right but not to depend on use indoors
Stick with SD 200 and see now you can make the manual exposure settings work for you in more challenging light circumstances

[Pinky Floyd]

Originally Posted by daveb975

I went to Currys with an SD card and they let me take some test footage on their camcorders to watch and compare at home.

Unfortunately, they didn't have the SD10 on display, but I took some footage with the SD200 and the Canon HF200.

I have now used my SD200 quite a lot. The picture quality in daylight is stunning - very sharp, excellent colours and movement. Indoors, it is a different story - the footage is near unwatchable on my 46" LCD and only bearable on my 19" kitchen TV.

I am disappointed because I paid the extra for the SD200 specifically as I thought it might be better in low light than the SD10. I am going on holiday on the weekend, so I do not have time to test the SD10. I don't want to buy it and find that the daylight quality is below the SD200.

I'm really surprised your indoor footage is near 'unwatchable', but much of it is subjective I guess.

I know I'm pleasantly surprised by the quality of the indoor night time footage from my SD10, I was expecting something terrible but it's really fine.

It's not quite as sharp as daytime footage and the only noise is in the form of extra grain, which really isn't all that bad anyway. It's eminently watchable and perfectly useable. It's certainly not 'poor' or near 'unwatchable' on my 40" plasma (not even close), although it might not compare to a more expensive camcorder.

There are excellent and mediocre reviews about the SD10 but having picked one up I definitely tend to agree more with the better reviews, while trying not to descend into rampant fanboy 'I bought one so it must be awesome' type territory.

One man's apple is another man's target for his bow and arrow......

[daveb975]

Originally Posted by Chinster

I'm really surprised your indoor footage is near 'unwatchable', but much of it is subjective I guess.

I know I'm pleasantly surprised by the quality of the indoor night time footage from my SD10, I was expecting something terrible but it's really fine.

It's not quite as sharp as daytime footage and the only noise is in the form of extra grain, which really isn't all that bad anyway. It's eminently watchable and perfectly useable. It's certainly not 'poor' or near 'unwatchable' on my 40" plasma (not even close), although it might not compare to a more expensive camcorder.

There are excellent and mediocre reviews about the SD10 but having picked one up I definitely tend to agree more with the better reviews, while trying not to descend into rampant fanboy 'I bought one so it must be awesome' type territory.

One man's apple is another man's target for his bow and arrow......

I think that a lot of the problems are caused by my TV. I have got a Samsung LED/LCD and it struggles with anything but the very best signal. When I watch the SD200 footage on a smaller screen it is much better, but still very noisy. I have been advised in another threas to try the 'Night Colour' mode when filming indoors, so I hope that this will improve the picture to an acceptable level.

[senu]

How does it look on a PC monitor?

[daveb975]

Originally Posted by senu

How does it look on a PC monitor?

Not seen that yet, because iMovie on my Mac will not import it properly. A still image looks fine, but any movement and it tears really badly (it doesn't do that on the TV). I know it is not a problem with the camera because the footage that I took on Currys' SD200 and HF200 are exactly the same.

It is strange, because the footage from my TZ7 and Sony CX6 works just fine.

[speckled hen]

interesting comments made by all but i still feel myself edging towards my first choice. i think what is clear about the low light issue is that it is still very much an "issue" even with newer cameras. my amateur eyes might not notice poor quality but if it is an issue then it appears the camera is capable of getting better results with the user spending time with the settings and playing about a bit. this is something i'm more than prepared to do.
so now i think i need to start looking for somewhere to buy it from for the cheapest price. any recomendations?
i have seen the camera on sale for even cheaper than about £570 ish from places in the states but they are ntsc. i have also read, on this forum i think, that this is not a problem for playback.........is this true or must the camera be pal?
cheers all once again.

[senu]

Originally Posted by speckled hen

i have seen the camera on sale for even cheaper than about £570 ish from places in the states but they are ntsc. i have also read, on this forum i think, that this is not a problem for playback.........is this true or must the camera be pal?
cheers all once again.

No the camcorder need not be PAL although you would have to contend with creating NTSC SD DVDs for friends and Family or transcode to PAL and lose quality
The NTSC/PAL issue is not the only thing to be aware of in buying from the US though.. other issues are covered in the relevant threads

[speckled hen]

cheers senu.......

i think i'll go with pal to make things easier for myself and for family members.
any thoughts on the place to purchase?
any thoughts on the places not to purchase from?

cheers.

[senu]

Originally Posted by speckled hen

cheers senu.......

i think i'll go with pal to make things easier for myself and for family members.
any thoughts on the place to purchase?
any thoughts on the places not to purchase from?

cheers.

Im old fashioned
I Like Amazon
Wary of E-bay and Definitely not Simply Electronics, Pixmania or Crazy Cameras
But that is a very personal opinion,
not
"official" advice
Others may Say where to buy..

[speckled hen]

wouldn't touchebay with this sort of dosh........seems this place is selling them with a free 2 year warranty and next day delivery and thier based in the uk.
Panasonic HDC-HS200
heard of these before???

[senu]

Camerabox.co.uk? anybody used them?

[mre15]

You could get a panasonic hdc-hs9 from the bay. A couple of sellers have new ones for around £300. They are 3ccd, with 60gb drives and sdhc slots.
Yes the model is a couple of yesrs old, but they are still great. Plus being ccd they dont have the rolling shutter isssue all the cmos ones do.

[speckled hen]

just to keep you all posted i have ordered the HDC-HS200 from camerabox as i've been mostly working so have only just caught up with the thread.
i'm not sure i would've been comfortable ordering from ebay when it comes to stuff like this but then i don't really use ebay.
saying that having looked at the reviews for camerabox it appears to be very hit and miss so i'll have to see what happens.
the order is already held up at thier end due to security with my bank card which i won't moan about because that might come in handy one of these days.
the funds will be released on tuesday so camerabox should release my order then and hopefully i'll get the camera on wednesday/thursday.
i'll have to wait and see.
as for camerbox i guess i'm playing guinea pig for everyone so fingers crossed.
once i've got the camera i'll have a play and post back with my thoughts but until then thanks to everyone for your help and advice.

cheers