Capturing VHS-C from camera or VHS player?

[Pandora]

Hi.

I have some compact VHS tapes that I am trying to capture on my pc's hard disk.

I am using the analog-->digital facility on a Sony DCR-TRV30E camera to convert from composite video to DV.

I have two options for playing the source material:

(a) Play the tapes in the 18-year old camera that was originally used to shoot the material.

(b) Play the tapes in a VHS-C adaptor inserted into a JVC DR-MX10 combination VCR/HDD/DVD player

The picture is better using (b) but the audio gain using (a) is 3dB higher.

Anyone know how I can increase the audio gain on the DR-MX10 output? Or any better ideas?


(Note: I tried transferring from VHS tape to DVD using the MX10's dub facility but the audio output level on the resulting VOB isn't any higher than the output from the MX10's red and white audio connectors. )

[jaymac]

Aside from the volume issue the best bet is stick it on dvd first .Then its easy to get it on the pc for editing if requred

[chrishull3]

The dvd recorder way would be easiest again if you have one, the tapes could be copied via the cam or a vhs player but you need a dvd player or can borrow one.

[senu]

Originally Posted by chrishull3

The dvd recorder way would be easiest again if you have one, the tapes could be copied via the cam or a vhs player but you need a dvd player or can borrow one.

..recorder
A settop one

[nvingo]

The OP has a DVD recorder (DR-MX10 is a VHS/DVD combo).

This contradicts your experience, but I always thought tracking, head switching etc. meant tapes were best played in the device that recorded them.

Check the audio features of the original camcorder and the MX10. Were the tapes recorded in edge-track (linear) mono, or Hi-Fi stereo? Are there any recording-level gain controls on the MX10 etc. What about the level at its scart output.

Edit. Just noticed OP specified DR-MX10 is the VHS/DVD/HDD combo - thought I recognised the model number.

I'd be tempted to record my tape - once - to the HDD in the highest quality it allows, then transfer sections to DVDRW and adjust the audio gain in software on the PC.

[Pandora]

Thanks for your replies, chaps.

Whilst I can do a VHS-->HDD-->DVD transfer on the DR-MX10, the resulting file is in mpeg 2 format.

MPEG is a delivery format and was not designed for editing. If the file is an mpeg, I would need to convert to AVI first to use it in my editing software (Premiere Pro).

Not sure how to do this.

[jaymac]

Originally Posted by Pandora

Thanks for your replies, chaps.

Whilst I can do a VHS-->HDD-->DVD transfer on the DR-MX10, the resulting file is in mpeg 2 format.

MPEG is a delivery format and was not designed for editing. If the file is an mpeg, I would need to convert to AVI first to use it in my editing software (Premiere Pro).

Not sure how to do this.

Most editors will edit Mpeg and have the benefit that it only recodes not reccodes any section that has been edited .Premiere pro will edit mpeg it prefers Avi but it will edit Mpeg
. Converting to avi and reconverting to get back on dvd can affect quality

[senu]

Originally Posted by Pandora

Thanks for your replies, chaps.

Whilst I can do a VHS-->HDD-->DVD transfer on the DR-MX10, the resulting file is in mpeg 2 format.

MPEG is a delivery format and was not designed for editing. If the file is an mpeg, I would need to convert to AVI first to use it in my editing software (Premiere Pro).

Not sure how to do this.

Mpeg2 can be edited , reasonably painlessly now.
Adobe Premiere Pro will edit it ( even if it does so by converting to AVI in te background)
If you must convert to AVI you may be best of using an intermediate codec like Cineforms ( Which Vegas Uses) .
The Advent of HDV (whichis natively Mpeg2 ) meant that many editors are able to edit mpeg2 fairly well without generational PQ loss from
rerendering
If you must do as you wish you can input mpeg2 into Preimere ro, output DV AVI then edit that but it seems needlessly long winded to me and a quality leecher.

PS: was posting same time as Jaymac..

[jaymac]

The early bird Senu

[senu]

Originally Posted by jaymac

The early bird Senu

Going back to bed now..for 10 mins!

[chrishull3]

Originally Posted by senu

..recorder
A settop one

i did say dvd recorder but left out rcorder part nest sentence i think he knows what i meant

[Pandora]

Originally Posted by senu

Mpeg2 can be edited , reasonably painlessly now.
Adobe Premiere Pro will edit it ( even if it does so by converting to AVI in te background)
If you must convert to AVI you may be best of using an intermediate codec like Cineforms ( Which Vegas Uses) .
The Advent of HDV (whichis natively Mpeg2 ) meant that many editors are able to edit mpeg2 fairly well without generational PQ loss from
rerendering
If you must do as you wish you can input mpeg2 into Preimere ro, output DV AVI then edit that but it seems needlessly long winded to me and a quality leecher.

PS: was posting same time as Jaymac..

Unfortunately, I am using Premiere Pro 1.5, which received wisdom seems to suggest is not great at handling mpg files on the timeline (for example)

For a novice like me, converting from mpeg to avi seems a bit more art than science.

I'll experiment a bit more...

[rogs]

Converting from mpeg2 back to DV AVI is simply just introducing one further stage of quality loss.
Better to convert straight to DV, using the Sony camera pass through, and then increase the audio gain by 3dB in your editor. Then export your final edited output in whatever form you choose. Minimises quality loss that way.

(Plus the fact that you are no longer restricted to 'real time' MPEG2 conversion, if that is your final destination)

[Pandora]

Originally Posted by nvingo

This contradicts your experience, but I always thought tracking, head switching etc. meant tapes were best played in the device that recorded them.

I think that what you say is true. But I think that the age of the camera means that the playback quality has deteriorated. There is too much "picture noise" - dirty recording head may be?

Originally Posted by nvingo

Check the audio features of the original camcorder and the MX10. Were the tapes recorded in edge-track (linear) mono, or Hi-Fi stereo? Are there any recording-level gain controls on the MX10 etc. What about the level at its scart output.

Good points. The microphone on the camera is Hi-Fi stereo. You can program for this on the MX10. There is no audio gain control on the MX10 as far as I can see (I've read the manual cover-to-cover). Would the scart audio output be better than the red and white bnc audio output connection? I assumed that it would be identical.

Originally Posted by nvingo

Edit. Just noticed OP specified DR-MX10 is the VHS/DVD/HDD combo - thought I recognised the model number.

I'd be tempted to record my tape - once - to the HDD in the highest quality it allows, then transfer sections to DVDRW and adjust the audio gain in software on the PC.

That's probably what I'll do to archive the material. Ten years ago the analog output from the camera would have been better but it's too old now I think.

[Pandora]

Originally Posted by rogs

Converting from mpeg2 back to DV AVI is simply just introducing one further stage of quality loss.
Better to convert straight to DV, using the Sony camera pass through, and then increase the audio gain by 3dB in your editor. Then export your final edited output in whatever form you choose. Minimises quality loss that way.

(Plus the fact that you are no longer restricted to 'real time' MPEG2 conversion, if that is your final destination)

With my limited experience, I have to agree that this gives the optimum results.

Given the capabilities of the DX10. I'll probably archive all the VHS-C tapes onto DVD using that machine so that I have a "modern" backup.

However, for selected clips that I want to incorporate into Premiere Pro projects, I'll capture them from the VHS-C tapes via the Sony DV camcorder.