[Garrett]

The last camcorder I had was a Sony Hi8 and was thinking of upgrading it to a HD one that’s also 16.9 rather than the 4.3 . Looking at them in the shop window today I could not see any view finders in the back of them only the fold out screen, I saw the owner opening the shop and he said there was non with viewfinders now.
I do not like using this form of filming or photography I still prefer to use an eye piece.
I read on one of the other threads that the quality of some of the newer camcorders could not math the old ones. Well if your shooting at arms length you are introducing a lot of unsteadiness.

I hope Im been misinformed and there is still some camcorders with viewfinders on the back that can be viewed though an eyepiece.

Is there any HD ones with viewfinders on the back like the ones before the fold out types became popular?

Garrett

[adrianaitken]

I think Canon do one (with a hard disk) HG20 - but don't quote me on the model number

[social_lurker]

Originally Posted by adrianaitken

I think Canon do one (with a hard disk) HG20 - but don't quote me on the model number

Correct: Also Sony HS11 and HS12 have viewfinders, and some of the higher end Panasonics do.

[Ken42]

I have a Canon HV20 with viewfinder and a fold out screen. Previously I had a Panasonic (1998 model) and used the viewfinder most of the time, mainly because the screen was not bright enough.

The Canon viewfinder doesn't come out away from the camera as the Panasonic did, so at first I found it difficult to operate in my usual way. However, I now use the pull out screen most of the time - with the cross hairs set to on so as to keep the cemera straight. It is bright enough even on the suniest of days. I use a completely different technique, which I see few others using on my travels.

For steadiness, you can hold the camera in two hands, braced against your body at waist level. This means not holding the camera in one hand via the strap braced against your eye and operating the ON/OFF button with your thumb and the zoom with a finger. Instead, the left hand grips the camera firmly and you operate the other buttons without putting your right hand through the strap. You also get more interesting angles for your shots (the camera can be held low or high) especially when shooting children. All those home videos of young children shot from six foot in the air so you don't see their faces are a thing of the past!

It just needs some practise.

[Garrett]

Think some if not all them out of my price range, was thinking of about £350 prefrably less

[lurcher]

Panasonic HDC-SD100 has viewfinder/mf ring , there was one for sale on the classified several days ago.

Julian

[frogmouth]

Ken, I've only ever used the viewfinder on my old SD Panasonic and am rather keen to acquire the Canon HFS10 which does not come with a viewfinder.

Do you believe that you can get good non-blurry footage without the viewfinder with your technique and a bit of practice?

[loz]

look at the Panasonic HDC-TM300, Panasonic HDC-TM350, or Panasonic HDC-HS300

All have viewfinder as well as LCD, and a range of manual controls

[senu]

Originally Posted by loz

look at the Panasonic HDC-TM300, Panasonic HDC-TM350, or Panasonic HDC-HS300

All have viewfinder as well as LCD, and a range of manual controls

They seem to be a cut above the rest. Once Panasonic had established the SD medium, it has gone back to putting sensible things back on camcorders
There are those who will debate about the mass adoption of "MOS" though..

[A n d r e w]

Originally Posted by frogmouth

Do you believe that you can get good non-blurry footage without the viewfinder with your technique and a bit of practice?

I use the same technique on a viewfinder-less camcorder and find it works just fine. But I still wish I had a viewfinder. And a microphone input, a headphones jack, a manual focus ring, and an enormous sensor!

[Garrett]

OK upped my budget a bit to £500 and a bit if I can find a bargin, anything come down in that price range?

Garrett

[senu]

Originally Posted by Garrett

OK upped my budget a bit to £500 and a bit if I can find a bargin, anything come down in that price range?

Garrett

Dont think so
The top end Panasonic and Sony cancorders have viewfinder but they are just a tad more...
Canons HV 30 ( tape) or HV 40) and HFS11 but they are really not £500

[Ken42]

frogmouth:

"Do you believe that you can get good non-blurry footage without the viewfinder with your technique and a bit of practice?"

Yes. See one of my videos here

YouTube - Bovington Tank Museum, Dorset, England

I used the viewfinder for some shots. I'm thinking of fitting a small tripod to the camera so that I can hold that instead of the camera.

[senu]

Originally Posted by Ken42

frogmouth:

"Do you believe that you can get good non-blurry footage without the viewfinder with your technique and a bit of practice?"
Yes. See one of my videos here
I used the viewfinder for some shots. I'm thinking of fitting a small tripod to the camera so that I can hold that instead of the camera.

Very good but Im pretty sure you would do it with considerably less effort handheld with a viewfinder throughout

What youve demonstrated are your very good videography skills, not the fact that viewfinders are largely unnecessary

While a viewfinder will not compensate for poor video skills ( and can be very hard to use for some tricky angles), Im rapidly coming to the conclusion that pannng , handholding with zoom really does show up a lot of camcorders
Looks like a tripods are comng back. Hand holding an LCD only camcorder and gettin decent steady shots is really a skill..

[loz]

I am surprised more people don't use monopods seeing as they are relatively small and inconspicuous (compared to a full tripod), but give a camcorder much more stability than is provided by an IS system.
IS might remove shakes, but doesn't compensate for the user bobbing the camera up and down, or not panning it in a level motion.

[chrishull3]

Indoors lcds are fine but its outdoors with strong sun that many me included can see nothing with them and use the viewfinder, there are lcd shields i know but how i have never tried one.

[senu]

In some ways it is not only that reflection can dazzle. It is also the fact that you cannot hold the camcorder in a certain way if you are limited to using the LCD
Designs like the FX1 ect allow you to use the LCD but still handhold more steadily
A lot of left handed folk would have to adapt to using thier right hand as the dominant one while shooting if they only have the LCD to frame shots

Of course with a tripod or monopod it doesnt matter

[Ken42]

I use the LCD outdoors quite a lot. The Canon HV20 has a bright LCD, unlike my previous Panasonic, and I usually shoot with the sun behind, which means my body casts shade over the screen. Also the screen angle can be changed to give a better (but not colour accurate) view.

Many of my videos are of grandchildren, and I like to get the camera down to their level. Difficult to do with a viewfinder.

I guess left handed folk have difficulty with any camcorder.

I don't think panning and zoom show up camcorders. It's just difficult to get steady handheld footage, whatever camcorder you use and however you do it. It's less noticeable with moving subjects, but shooting a landscape or inside buildings shows up any wobbles. I project some of my footage (84" diagonal) and that really shows up any lack of steadiness. Even breathing can cause the camera to move slightly

I suspect the same may be true of monopds, but I'm going to give one a go.

[chrishull3]

Originally Posted by Ken42

I use the LCD outdoors quite a lot. The Canon HV20 has a bright LCD, unlike my previous Panasonic, and I usually shoot with the sun behind, which means my body casts shade over the screen. Also the screen angle can be changed to give a better (but not colour accurate) view.

Many of my videos are of grandchildren, and I like to get the camera down to their level. Difficult to do with a viewfinder.

I guess left handed folk have difficulty with any camcorder.

I don't think panning and zoom show up camcorders. It's just difficult to get steady handheld footage, whatever camcorder you use and however you do it. It's less noticeable with moving subjects, but shooting a landscape or inside buildings shows up any wobbles. I project some of my footage (84" diagonal) and that really shows up any lack of steadiness. Even breathing can cause the camera to move slightly

I suspect the same may be true of monopds, but I'm going to give one a go.

HV 30 so same lcd and its hopeless for me,the viewfinder all the time ouside and its a bit small, agree about the zooming and panning and i know its extra work but its why i always use a tripod/ monopod or cam brace.

[senu]

Originally Posted by Ken42

I use the LCD outdoors quite a lot. The Canon HV20 has a bright LCD, unlike my previous Panasonic, and I usually shoot with the sun behind, which means my body casts shade over the screen. Also the screen angle can be changed to give a better (but not colour accurate) view Many of my videos are of grandchildren, and I like to get the camera down to their level. Difficult to do with a viewfinder.

They can be useful but Id prefer to have both an LCD and viewfinder, not one or the other

I don't think panning and zoom show up camcorders. It's just difficult to get steady handheld footage, whatever camcorder you use and however you do it.

The newer generation AVCHD camcorders do try your patience with panning, a tad more than tape based ones
HDV ones are a bit better but panning is still to be kept to a bare minimum , I agree

It's less noticeable with moving subjects,

I actually find the newer camcorders are quite good with moving subjects ( but not a moving videographer!)