[mmace]

Can anyone recommend a camera under £2,000 that is really good in low light?
Also, where to buy from?

cheers

[chrishull3]

Originally Posted by mmace

Can anyone recommend a camera under £2,000 that is really good in low light?
Also, where to buy from?

cheers

There is nothing realy between Sony HDR-XR500E Hard Disk Camcorder from Pro Visual Direct consumer cam but very good in low light and the sony hdr-fx1000 2500£ at least a prosumer cam also very good in low light, the consumer cam is avchd the fx1000 is hdv.

[rogs]

Might be worth looking at some of the new video capable DSLRs - or a very near SLR - like the Products - LUMIX Digital Cameras - Overview - The New LUMIX GH1 Digital Camera - UK & Ireland

Big sensor, and supposed to be very good in low light.

It's just coping with the odd ergonomics that might take a bit of getting used to!.....

[mmace]

Originally Posted by rogs

Might be worth looking at some of the new video capable DSLRs - or a very near SLR - like the Products - LUMIX Digital Cameras - Overview - The New LUMIX GH1 Digital Camera - UK & Ireland

Big sensor, and supposed to be very good in low light.

It's just coping with the odd ergonomics that might take a bit of getting used to!.....

cheers, but I'd want to add to it in the future, things like lights, dolly's, cranes, decent mic etc so would want a camcorder, plus I've heard the DSLR's don't record for very long

[mmace]

Anyone know what the Sony HD1000 is like in low light?
there's a few places selling this for £1000

[chrishull3]

Originally Posted by mmace

Anyone know what the Sony HD1000 is like in low light?
there's a few places selling this for £1000

More or less a HC-1 in a large body with more on cam controls, i have FX-7 Sony and Canon HV30 which is better.

[loz]

Is HD important?

You will probably get better low light performance from an SD camera at that price point.

And a lot of the HD prosumer cameras simply reduce resolution in low light anyway as a way of noise processing - so the advantages of HD are little, if any.

You have to spend a lot of money it seems to get true HD resolution and good low light capabilty

[mmace]

Originally Posted by loz

Is HD important?

You will probably get better low light performance from an SD camera at that price point.

And a lot of the HD prosumer cameras simply reduce resolution in low light anyway as a way of noise processing - so the advantages of HD are little, if any.

You have to spend a lot of money it seems to get true HD resolution and good low light capabilty

yeah, HD is important, I've done stuff in HD for years now, am not wanting to take a step back

Am now upping my limit and looking at 2 Sonys, the V1 and Z1
anyone got any experience with either?

[senu]

Originally Posted by mmace

yeah, HD is important, I've done stuff in HD for years now, am not wanting to take a step back

Am now upping my limit and looking at 2 Sonys, the V1 and Z1
anyone got any experience with either?

I have used the Z1 and it is quite good in low light.. much better than the FX1 which isnt bad in itself
Canons XH A1 is quite accomplished too but it is not within that budget range
Im yet to see a consumer camcorder as good as Sonys VX2100 in low light though.. It is SD only mind
But the Z1 is good
The V1 i dont really know

[rogs]

Originally Posted by mmace

Am now upping my limit

Maybe take a look at the Holdan Limited - Panasonic AG-HMC151 Professional 3-CCD Handheld AVCCAM camcorder as well. Good size CCDs, very good reports in low light, and gets away from tape as well!

Currently shipping with Edius Neo2 I believe, so no problems editing AVCHD!

[senu]

Originally Posted by rogs

Maybe take a look at the Holdan Limited - Panasonic AG-HMC151 Professional 3-CCD Handheld AVCCAM camcorder as well. Good size CCDs, very good reports in low light, and gets away from tape as well!

Currently shipping with Edius Neo2 I believe, so no problems editing AVCHD!

Excellent but £3460 + vat (at 17.5%)= £4065, !
I suppose the addition of Edius may negate some of that
It is well worthy of a look

[rogs]

Hmm.... yes that does seem a bit steep! I should have linked to the actual Panasonic site: AG-HMC151E rather than to a specific dealer ..sorry about that.


I would think that this : Panasonic AG HMC152 / AG HMC151 Camcorder from Pro Visual Direct

would be more like the actual 'street' price

I have to confess, I am surpised how much more expensive the AG HMC151 is now, is compared to a year ago. I believe both Sony and Panasonic put their prices up in April this year, by about 10%. Slightly strange thing to do in a recession, you might think, but I imagine they had their reasons?

Maybe Panasonic are keeping the price up to maintain a healthy differential against the price of their new AG-HMC41E model?

Looks like an interesting new model. How good it is in low light???. Still a bit new for customer reviews yet.
I see it uses CMOS sensors, unlike the '151. Might be important for those intending any 'action' photography?

[mmace]

cheers, I like the look of the panasonic, it's new though so may have to wait for low light reviews

[chrishull3]

The V1 is no better than the very similar FX-7, sonys best low light cam at a reasonable price is the FX1000, i owned a 2100 and could never see the incredible low light performance myself and doubt it any better than the FX1000 as said the panasonic is very good if tapeless is the plan.
Any good film production needs lights realy anyway.

[senu]

Originally Posted by chrishull3

The V1 is no better than the very similar FX-7, sonys best low light cam at a reasonable price is the FX1000, i owned a 2100 and could never see the incredible low light performance myself and doubt it any better than the FX1000 as said the panasonic is very good if tapeless is the plan.
Any good film production needs lights realy anyway.

The VX2100 did have better low light performance than the FX1 , i have both) maybe not the Z1.In reality none of the 3 has poor low light performance if only as a consequence of big fast lens and good size 3CCD
The Vx2000 also had good low light performance
I dont know the FX1000
The OP did ask about the Z1 but seems to have discounted it in the light of the Panasonic

[loz]

Originally Posted by rogs

I have to confess, I am surpised how much more expensive the AG HMC151 is now, is compared to a year ago. I believe both Sony and Panasonic put their prices up in April this year, by about 10%. Slightly strange thing to do in a recession, you might think, but I imagine they had their reasons?

Unfortunately, given the pound dropped by something like 40% against the Yen last year, we were lucky prices only went up by 10%. (probably cushioned by the fact the UK prices were too high before the crash)

All the Japanese camera and AV stuff went up similar amounts - canon, nikon, etc

[chrishull3]

Originally Posted by senu

The VX2100 did have better low light performance than the FX1 , i have both) maybe not the Z1.In reality none of the 3 has poor low light performance if only as a consequence of big fast lens and good size 3CCD
The Vx2000 also had good low light performance
I dont know the FX1000
The OP did ask about the Z1 but seems to have discounted it in the light of the Panasonic

The Z1 is discontinued i dont know if any old stock are still for sale, yes the 2100 has good low light but the modern cmos Z5 & FX000s are its equal and vastly superior in every other way,certainly the op may be better going with the panasonic over a Z1 it is a more manageble size and unlike myself most prefer the tapeless way nowadays.

[mmace]

cheers everyone, I will do some digging and read some reviews next week

[loz]

Back at your original price point, the new Panasonic AG-HMC41 looks interesting.
Basically a TM300 rehoused in a "pro" body, with higher bit rate recording.

http://www.holdan.co.uk/panasonic/AG-HMC41.htm

http://www.panasonic-broadcast.com/c.../en/HMC41E.pdf

Street price about £2k it seems

It isnt going to have the low noise of a proper pro cam, but I did read somewhere that the TM350 (which hasn't been released in the UK) does have better lower noise than the TM300.

Perhaps with some other tweaks, and better electronics, and higher bit rates, it might perform better in low light than the TM300 or TM350

But if not, it's a lot of money to pay for camcorder that essentially has the same lens and sensor as a £500 SD100... no matter how fancy it looks on the outside.

FYI, an interesting low light test of the TM-300 (better watched in youtube itself in HD). Including a "one candle" test with various gain settings
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UszfC_0_MEM

[ade4all]

if low light hd camcorder is what you need then i would keep looking for a 2nd hand hmc151 - i got 1 for £1900 with extra large battery, 6 months old with 3 year warranty - low light is exceptional, you can push it to 12db gain with hardly any noise which is brighter even than the std def vx2100. the new hmc 41 looks good but is apparently 3 stops slower than the hmc151 - low light is not its strength

[loz]

Originally Posted by ade4all

keep looking for a 2nd hand hmc151 - i got 1 for £1900 with extra large battery, 6 months old with 3 year warranty

where did you find one 2nd hand if you don't mind me asking?
That sounded like a good deal.

[ade4all]

it was off ebay, you have to be careful obviously & check uot as much as you can about the seller, but was from a video production company, have seen others go for about the same since - just be patient & follow your instincts

[mmace]

I think I will go for a Sony Z1 for £2800.

cheers guys

[ade4all]

z1 is a solid camera but if you're looking for good lowlight it may disappoint - quite an old camera now, also only shoots interlaced - if you want tape workflow hdv i would choose canon xha1

[chrishull3]

If you want tape i would choose sony Z5/FX1000 much better pq

[mmace]

Originally Posted by chrishull3

If you want tape i would choose sony Z5/FX1000 much better pq

the Z5 is just out of my price range (and I don't earn enough to save up that extra, 2 kids sucks the money out of me!)

How's the FX1000 in low light?

[chrishull3]

Originally Posted by mmace

the Z5 is just out of my price range (and I don't earn enough to save up that extra, 2 kids sucks the money out of me!)

How's the FX1000 in low light?

Sony HDR-FX1000 Review HD Camcorder


Good i have only used one once and it seemed as good as a 2100 i once had

[mmace]

Originally Posted by chrishull3

Sony HDR-FX1000 Review HD Camcorder


Good i have only used one once and it seemed as good as a 2100 i once had

cheers Chris, much appreciated

[loz]

Originally Posted by mmace

cheers Chris, much appreciated

see also
Sony Handycam HDR-FX1000E Review - Camcorder Reviews - TrustedReviews

Sony Handycam HDR-FX1000 Camcorder Review - Sony Camcorders

The HDR-FX1000 produced a spectacular video resolution, measuring the highest line widths per picture height we have ever recorded.