Optical Image Stabilisation

sauluk · 23-08-2009, 8:32 PM

Is this much better than electronic? Reason I ask is I'm looking for a HD cam for the bike but if it can't handle a bit of vibration there's no point.

Looking at the Sanyo HD1000 but it has EIS so I'm wondering what my cheapest option is with OIS really.

Cheers all

rogs · 23-08-2009, 8:44 PM

Yes -optical image stabilisation is much better than EIS

One thing you might like to check out, as you are intending to use the camera where there might be a lot of vibration.

Look for a camera with CCD sensors --many of today's cameras use CMOS sensors, which all have rolling shutters.
That can cause problems in high vibration situations.

This shows you the kind of thing I mean :

YouTube - CMOS vs 3CCD Heavy Vibration Test

sauluk · 23-08-2009, 9:07 PM

Thanks for the swift reply. The difference between those cameras is massive, particularly on the boat which I'd imagine would be the most appropriate as the vibrations would come from the engine!

Would I be paying through the nose for a CCD cam though? I'm not looking to chuff up a fortune just to film on the bike, I've also used my digital camera (Sony DSC-T200) and I must have a good mount as the image is nowhere near as bad as the above video. Even as a still camera!

rogs · 23-08-2009, 10:43 PM

Remember though that your Sony camera has a CCD sensor!

This is just one of those 'laws of physics' things. CMOS sensors can produce stunning images, and more and more cameras use them. It's just that because they all use rolling shutters, they're not very good at fast motion or situations where there is a lot of vibration.
This CMOS Rolling Shutter article shows some of the reasons, if you're interested.

It's not that easy to find consumer HD camcorders with CCD sensors these days, but it might be worth looking, especially for what you intend to use it for.

sauluk · 24-08-2009, 9:54 PM

Oh right! That would explain why it handles it pretty well then! Are there any budget / midrange ccd cameras then or are they all quite steep? I'm ideally looking for £300 max but realise that may be a bit tough!!

**senu** · 24-08-2009, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rogs

Yes -optical image stabilisation is much better than EIS

One thing you might like to check out, as you are intending to use the camera where there might be a lot of vibration.

Look for a camera with CCD sensors --many of today's cameras use CMOS sensors, which all have rolling shutters.
That can cause problems in high vibration situations.

This shows you the kind of thing I mean :

YouTube - CMOS vs 3CCD Heavy Vibration Test

Call me cynical, I am not entirely sure that some videos to show off how bad the Cmos rolling shutter effect is are not
Enhanced
or
Deliberately shot in situations in which 99% of us would not shoot video anyway
I have 1 or 2 camcorders with 3CCD and CMOS for comparison and Im sure your explanation of the physics is absolutely correct but given how little choice that one now has is in the CCd vs CMOS sensors on domestic kit.. It may be academic

BTW I used a CMOS camcorder ( Sony HC-1) at a wedding last weekend ( its small enough to take on a trip abroad .. it was in DenMark ) with lot of flash from digital SLs I currenty previewing the footage prior to editing
So far so good.. looks pretty normal.

**senu** · 24-08-2009, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sauluk

Oh right! That would explain why it handles it pretty well then! Are there any budget / midrange ccd cameras then or are they all quite steep? I'm ideally looking for £300 max but realise that may be a bit tough!!

It is
At any rate even CCD camcorders may not enjoy the vibration from a bike if it is excessive ..

Panasonic which championed CCD are now CMOS..

rogs · 25-08-2009, 8:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by senu

Deliberately shot in situations in which 99% of us would not shoot video anyway

I'm sure you're right - and of course the reason that some of those clips are posted is just to illustrate the point!

In this case the OP specifically asks for advice on stabilisation, and it would surely be wrong not to outline the so called wobble (or 'jellocam') effect that rolling shutters can (and do!) have where there is significant vibration? This is not an uncommon problem in those situations.

An experienced video colleague of mine, who shoots a lot of 'in car' footage, has recently changed his Canon HV30 camera for a Panasonic AG HMC151, and one of his primary reasons was to get rid of the 'dreaded rolling shutter jellocam' as he described it.
(Panasonic do still do 3 x CCD cameras - just not consumer ones!

)

AFAIK, the only mainstream camcorder manufacturer still supplying HD consumer camcorders, with CCD sensors, is JVC. And then only in HDD models - not always ideal cameras for high vibration, or high altitude use. And so it goes on!

As you rightly say, CMOS sensors are fine for 99% of footage, but where someone has specifically asked about image stabilisation, for a high vibration use, it does seem only fair that they be aware of rolling shutter issues.
At least then they can make an informed decision.

rogs · 25-08-2009, 8:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sauluk

Are there any budget / midrange ccd cameras then or are they all quite steep? I'm ideally looking for £300 max but realise that may be a bit tough!!

As we have discussed in the posts above, comsumer HD CCD camcorders are becomong increasingly rare. For your budget you may have to consider a secondhand or refurb model -
and even then something like this:
Panasonic HDC-SD9EB-S HD Camcorder: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics & Photo is still a bit above your budget!

(BTW - the SD9 is the successor to the SD5 model shown in the boat clip I linked to above, so the image quality is very similar)

sauluk · 25-08-2009, 5:01 PM

Yep, thanks for all the advice guys. I think the problem is I want something perfect for a small budget, not really going to happen. I think I should just stick to budget and go CMOS, given that I'd have to spend a lot to go CCD and just hope that the problem doesn't transpose too badly on the bike.

At the end of the day there is only so much footage to be taken on the bike so in all I'd use the camera for other uses too in which case a CMOS would be fine! Might take the plunge on the Sanyo HD1000, do you guys think there are better cameras for ~£250?

*A n d r e w* · 25-08-2009, 5:34 PM

I've no experience with the Sanyo so can't comment on that, but I suggest that you test it carefully while you're still within the returns window (usually 14 days for an online purchase - different if you buy from a bricks-and-mortar store) so that, if you're not happy with performance, you can send it back.