HD Cam advice - research performed, wall hit!

[thesilverfox]

Hi guys.

I'm soon to be travelling to Japan with work (finance!), and attending CES in Las Vegas in January 2010 with a hardware website. In my spare time, I will be embarking on an ambitious personal project that would be documented well with a camcorder. So a mix of out and about in cities, interviews on a tripod and general use.

(p.s. I already own a Velbon DV7000 tripod for my DSLR, so interviews are covered)

I've done some of my own research, but hit a dead end with conflicting opinions. Here is what I know I want:

• HD capable in AVCHD (AVC/H.264)
• 1080p (I have a Samsung LE40A686 panel)
• Prefer manual focus ability
• Prefer mic input
• Backlight compensation or equivalent to iris/aperture control
• Good battery is a bonus, but I already concede to buying a spare or two.
• Wide angle lens attachment would be a bonus
• Optical zoom doesn't need to be mega (it's redundant by hand at certain lengths and above anyway)

Here are some points I am stuck with:

• HDD or flash memory storage - happy to buy a few cards if required, but not sure which is preferred and suggested and why.
• Is the 3-CCD feature worth the premium?
• What is the best software for editing AVCHD? I frequently hear tales of my father cursing the day Sony Vegas was conceived you see.
• What's the deal with 24p/25p on camcorders? I.e. my Blu Ray player and HDTV resolve the 24p issue - not likely on the camcorder? Surprisingly not well documented on my travels!

All and every bit of advice is very welcome. My intended budget is around £400, but I can stretch to £500 if the price justifies the end means.

Finally, thanks for your replies in advance - I appreciate that many threads crop up, but I've done some research at least!

Many thanks,
thesilverfox

[thesilverfox]

Well, I've managed to unearth some answers. 130ish views at present, and no replies, so I figured someone must be interested too.

HDD or Flash? Seems to be the latter that is more favourable moving forward, though likely due to better battery life and lower failure rate.

3CCD? My findings point towards 'undecided'. It seems that the 3CCD feature can add to the AVCHD processing nightmare that some people suffer from, as I recall seeing drastically increased times being quoted. I think each of the three sensors still needs to be something half decent, which some models were frankly not. One large sensor seems on par with 3 smaller sensors right now from what I have read.

Manual Focus Ring? Unless there is a decent optical viewfinder or an exceptionally detailed high-res viewscreen, it's widely considered pointless using the focal ring in manual mode, as the screen is not sharp enough to distinguish perfect focus. More professional units will benefit more considerably.


So, I did end up buying something - the Canon HG20 for £508 delivered from Pixmania (of all places). I couldn't source stock from anywhere else and Canon UK told Bristol Cameras that no more stock is due.

It's full 1080p, mic input, 60GB hard disk with a flash card slot too for hybrid recording, records at 24Mbit on the highest setting and has a 1/3.2 CMOS @ 3.31MP.

Generally speaking, it reviews quite highly; but I was most keen due to the superb image quality (which the HF20 and HF200 as replacements, take a small step back with a poorer sensor).

Review over here: Canon HG20 Review - Camcorder Reviews - TrustedReviews

http://www.itreviews.co.uk/graphics/...ware/h1773.jpg

[Mr Taylor]

Yes, I agree with everything you have figured out.

I have myself been reading everything I can on what's out there, and have turned up the same info.

But I had to laugh at the thought of a European tourist walking around Japan with a Camcorder...usually it's the other way around.

[thesilverfox]

Originally Posted by Mr Taylor

Yes, I agree with everything you have figured out.

I have myself been reading everything I can on what's out there, and have turned up the same info.

But I had to laugh at the thought of a European tourist walking around Japan with a Camcorder...usually it's the other way around.

Try as I might, I can't find anything else around the £500 mark that will out-perform the HG20 in real terms in what I need.

Yeah, I'm one for role reversal wherever possible.

Delivery is expected any time soon - only that DHL have charge of this, and my confidence in their (or sub-contractor's) abilities is absolutely zero. Fingers crossed.

[kmanmx]

Hey, been looking at the Canon HG20 myself.

Have you got it yet, how do you find it ? (mainly the picture quality). If you could reply here or PM me with how you find the quality overall i'd be very very greatfull

Also, once you have it, any chance you could try and upload an uncompressed original file to a hosting site such as rapidshare so i can download and take a look ?? I'd be most happy if you did


Thanks alot.

[thesilverfox]

Originally Posted by kmanmx

Hey, been looking at the Canon HG20 myself.

Have you got it yet, how do you find it ? (mainly the picture quality). If you could reply here or PM me with how you find the quality overall i'd be very very greatfull

Also, once you have it, any chance you could try and upload an uncompressed original file to a hosting site such as rapidshare so i can download and take a look ?? I'd be most happy if you did


Thanks alot.

So far, I am quite impressed. I've mainly used it for indoor/night shots to date (time is lacking to go out and film something), but I can upload a file for you no problem. Check back later today - I'll figure something out!

Using my tripod with it has blown me away. Really impressed with it. I know there are better cameras, but they were 400 and 500 quid more really and it's hard to justify that sort of cash.

User menus are a bit odd at first, but easy once you've figured it out. Same as most things I guess.

[kmanmx]

Thanks alot

I think i'll use my Camcorder for the opposite reason, i'll do very little indoors shooting and lots of outside recording :D Also, one concern i had was manual focus with the Joystick and low res screen, is it as useless as everyone makes out ?

What tripod do you use ? i am interested in getting one.

[thesilverfox]

Originally Posted by kmanmx

Thanks alot

I think i'll use my Camcorder for the opposite reason, i'll do very little indoors shooting and lots of outside recording :D Also, one concern i had was manual focus with the Joystick and low res screen, is it as useless as everyone makes out ?

What tripod do you use ? i am interested in getting one.

I will actually use mine outdoors quite a lot, I just have not yet had the time to go out (it's a hard life). I use a Velbon DV 7000.

Velbon DV7000 Tripod - Jessops

Whatever you decide to get, ignore reviews to a certain extent; play with one yourself. The DV-7000 I have gets some odd reviews of people not liking the panning and tilting. This is because you have two sets of tension setting - a fine tune and a regular tune as it were. Once you have it set up for how you want to pan and tilt, it's superb.

edit: re the focus; it's not all that bad, but just remember that the screen itself is not an earth-shattering piece of optical equipment that you might get in an SLR for example, so using a 'low-res' LCD to determine focus is always going to be trial and error. If you stick to a focal length, AF seems pretty decent. If you zoom in and out lots and wiggle about, well you're asking for trouble!

[A n d r e w]

Originally Posted by kmanmx

one concern i had was manual focus with the Joystick and low res screen, is it as useless as everyone makes out?

Yes. It's like bobbing for apples. Actually, worse, since you can't tell whether you have your subject nice and sharp until you look at your clips later on decent viewing equipment.

[kmanmx]

Originally Posted by A n d r e w

Yes. It's like bobbing for apples. Actually, worse, since you can't tell whether you have your subject nice and sharp until you look at your clips later on decent viewing equipment.

Would I be better off going for a Sony HDR SR11? It has a higher res screen and manual focus ring. Just worried the quality isn't so good.

[A n d r e w]

Originally Posted by kmanmx

Would I be better off going for a Sony HDR SR11? It has a higher res screen and manual focus ring. Just worried the quality isn't so good.

It's the viewfinder that counts when focusing, though the camera control dial will help, too - but I've not used an SR11 so can't really comment on whether it's any better in the manual focusing department than the Canon.

[mikeymay]

So, I did end up buying something - the Canon HG20 for £508 delivered from Pixmania

Using Google shopping I can find this camera for £385 ($650).

Is it worth buying one from the US?

[thesilverfox]

Originally Posted by kmanmx

Would I be better off going for a Sony HDR SR11? It has a higher res screen and manual focus ring. Just worried the quality isn't so good.

As I mentioned above, the focus ring is still hard to focus with on a digital screen. I can only suggest you try one out first and review the recordings later on an LCD or computer screen to see if it was really ever in focus.

[thesilverfox]

Originally Posted by mikeymay

Using Google shopping I can find this camera for £385 ($650).

Is it worth buying one from the US?

I considered it, but decided against it. Here's why I personally decided against it.

• could be a USA only warranty
• difficult to deal with retailers if not based in the UK/EU
• you would legally be required to pay import duty
• delivery time can be hit and miss, not to mention could be inspected and poorly treated in the process

So while nothing is majorly awful, I'd be concerned about the warranty. I got 2 years warranty with mine and the warranty is definitely okay for Europe, though not sure about the USA - I've heard people say that Canon will require you to send it to the country of purchase to be repaired.

Plus the duties and admin charge potenially. It could slip through unnoticed, but it might not.

It's your call!