[richardstringer]

I was gonna get a Sony HDR-XR520VE camcorder next week, but now i'm wondering if its worth the hassle putting up with having to go through the pain of transferring footage from a Canon HV40 because what i've seen so far, it looks like its every other non professional camcorder for breakfast where image quality is concerned.

I haven't got the money throw away on getting a camcorder thats not gonna be the best I can afford. I've seen a few videos of the Canon HV40 and it looks to be as close to broadcast quality as i've ever seen in any non professional camcorder.

What do you guys think?

Best image quality out of :

Canon HV40
Sony HDR-XR520VE
Canon HF S10
Panasonic HDC-HS300

Surely its gotta be the HV40 hasn't it?

[cosmic68]

All gorgeous when viewed natively off camera and onto a HD telly-stunning.

Then put it through ANY editing software and watch in horror as your footage gets reduced in quality by at least 5/10 percent, no matter the settings.

If not worried about editing then go for it. If going to edit-read around, make a careful, informed choice.

regards.

[senu]

Originally Posted by cosmic68

All gorgeous when viewed natively off camera and onto a HD telly-stunning.

Then put it through ANY editing software and watch in horror as your footage gets reduced in quality by at least 5/10 percent, no matter the settings.

If not worried about editing then go for it. If going to edit-read around, make a careful, informed choice.

regards.

This is largely true particularly of AVCHD depending on software
It is rather much less so for HDV (which the HV40 outputs) AFAIK, most edited HDV are practically identical to natively output footage as long as the software is reasonably OK
Nonetheless, it should not be the only point to consider when buying

[richardstringer]

I really want one but i'm just not up for fast forwarding and rewinding footage on the camcorder to find where the abouts the footage im looking for is. I use to find it annoying on my old camcorder doing that.

[senu]

Originally Posted by richardstringer

I really want one but i'm just not up for fast forwarding and rewinding footage on the camcorder to find where the abouts the footage im looking for is. I use to find it annoying on my old camcorder doing that.

Once on the PC that should not be nessesary
And you can then make AVCHD dic or BD discs from the footage if you wish

[richardstringer]

Yeah I know but transferring it to your pc is a total nightmare sometimes, and at the minimum, a great time consuming hassle. I'll most likely buy the Sony HDR-XR520VE on wednesday when I finally get a camcorder. All I to do then is flcik through the recorded files to find a certain one.

[senu]

Originally Posted by richardstringer

Yeah I know but transferring it to your pc is a total nightmare sometimes, and at the minimum, a great time consuming hassle. I'll most likely buy the Sony HDR-XR520VE on wednesday when I finally get a camcorder. All I to do then is flcik through the recorded files to find a certain one.

True, the transfer is real time ( never more than one hr TBH , and can be left totally unattended)
I agree USB is more convenient but I think we have been conditioned by marketing ( and the fact that firewire is not as universal as USB especially lately) to exaggerate the hassle of tape capture. I still have 3 MinDv tape ( S HDv) camcorders and Im prettty comfortable with them
Once on te PC the files from either kind of camcorder are treated identically

For the record, Im not mking a case for tape merely trying to say to anyone else considering the HV40 , tape capture is real time and requres firewire but that is the sum of it. It is not a nightmare
For anyone hoping to edit .. it takes the same amount of time with either and arguably much easier with HDV material
Also your tape remains the archive.. no loss of data with say a failing HDD

[chrishull3]

Whats the problem with real time transfer i love to watch what i have recorded on my small hd tv beside the pc as it captures, believe me editing and making a proper film is much easier with hdv, for a start the once captured that is what you work with, to make anyting like a good film from avchd the 1920 material needs to be converted, i have both avchd and hdv cams,i wont say more senu says it all for me.

[richardstringer]

Well I rarely ever wanna transfer every second to my computer so I have to fast forward and rewind the tape on the camcorder trying to find the section I want, and thats a hassle. If you transfer the whole tape to your computer then you still got to fast forward and rewind to find the bits you want when its in the video editing software anyway. Either way its a pain in the ass.

[senu]

Originally Posted by richardstringer

Well I rarely ever wanna transfer every second to my computer so I have to fast forward and rewind the tape on the camcorder trying to find the section I want, and thats a hassle. If you transfer the whole tape to your computer then you still got to fast forward and rewind to find the bits you want when its in the video editing software anyway. Either way its a pain in the ass.

It is horses for courses If yu find t a PITA, no problem

My take is that for creative editing, you need to watch the whole footage at least once
Then delete, trim what you don't want , having some leeway.
As such during recording It is better to record some potentially redundant footage than frequent start/ stop recording as you may inadvertently miss some moments. We've all done that before
Watching the capture allows you to immediately start deciding what stays and what goes so the editng time can be time well spent;
Good editing is a little time consuming and this viewing of the footage can cut down on this

Of course all this is hot air if you simply want to trim a little and cobble together a few clips or the whole footage is perfect and no realeditng is requred

Also ,If fact, unless you specify otherwise, most editing software never capture a tapes footage as one single big file. It is most usually as clips corresponding to scene/ time changes ect) in much the same way as you would with non-tape
Also the whole tape is timecoded so you know exactly where each scene is during editing

The " hassle" is in capture ( the wait) , not once on the PC and that captre does not need to be attended .( can be left and returned to) the only loss is the immediacy you have become used to with " drag and drop
In fact given that you are dealing with 13Gb of data for a 1 hr material , ven with USB transfer ( particularly with Vista, It is never that "instant"

As I stated earlier , I have used AVCHD ( Canon HG 10 Sony SR11/12 a fair bit, although I own tape ) and do know the pros cons.
This is not to move you towards it at all, just to let any other potential buyer be aware that editing software are called non linear mainly because the captured file on the PC is digital, mostly clips and not the same fast forward/ rewind location process as on the tape itself and even on a long clip it is very very easy to " scrub" and locate particular scenes

[xmb]

I was a big fan of tape as you can keep the tape as an archive, but will you be able to play the tape back in 10 years time? The tape maybe fine but will there be anything around to play it back on!

Since you have to keep moving any backup from its existing media to the latest media every 5 years you may as well start off with the footage in the digital domain. At least then finding a particular clip is a much simpler process.

Since the forth coming devices such as Panasonic's Freesat equipped Blu-ray recorder will allow direct dubbing from your AVCHD files (via USB or SD card) to a Blu-ray or DVD disk a simple home transfer and backup system will become an easy option.

[senu]

Originally Posted by xmb

I was a big fan of tape as you can keep the tape as an archive, but will you be able to play the tape back in 10 years time? The tape maybe fine but will there be anything around to play it back on!

Hard to say but analogue VHS was around for a very very long time and even now Hi8 tapes and thier camcorders still exist

Since you have to keep moving any backup from its existing media to the latest media every 5 years you may as well start off with the footage in the digital domain. At least then finding a particular clip is a much simpler process.

The footage on tape is digital (I know one needs to keep remebering that) and you may ( if you wish) archive the captured footage and only see the tapes themselves as an additional backup, provided the HDD or optical disc remains robust
In the Computer world they still have tape backups although huge supercooled HDD banks are gradual superseding these. The data on those tape backups is digital

Since the forth coming devices such as Panasonic's Freesat equipped Blu-ray recorder will allow direct dubbing from your AVCHD files (via USB or SD card) to a Blu-ray or DVD disk a simple home transfer and backup system will become an easy option.

Backup is the holy grail of Video and nobody imagines tape will last for ever. however that same can be said of optical media .
Consumer DVD discs have not proven to be invincible to ageing( at east poorly made not meticulously stored) so there is no perfect one
Im not a tape die hard Im just saying that there is a need to separate the "speil" of marketing of non-tape recording from the fact that they all have pros cons and MiniDV tape/ DV cam ect is not the same as VHS/Hi 8 or such old format.
The footage is digital and can be stored off tape once captured

[richardstringer]

Originally Posted by xmb

I was a big fan of tape as you can keep the tape as an archive, but will you be able to play the tape back in 10 years time? The tape maybe fine but will there be anything around to play it back on!

Since you have to keep moving any backup from its existing media to the latest media every 5 years you may as well start off with the footage in the digital domain. At least then finding a particular clip is a much simpler process.

Since the forth coming devices such as Panasonic's Freesat equipped Blu-ray recorder will allow direct dubbing from your AVCHD files (via USB or SD card) to a Blu-ray or DVD disk a simple home transfer and backup system will become an easy option.

I've heard that after about 3 years video footage thats on tape can become very degraded. I think though i'm definately gonna buy the Sony HDR-XR520VE because I mean you've got about 6-8 hours continuous of the best quality footage so thats enough for me to take little bits of video of my children here and there. When I take them tenerife next year i'll be buying a laptop pc before then anyway so if I run out of hard disc space I can transfer it to the laptop. Plus I dont have to worry about buying as high a quality mini dv tapes as I can afford or have to carry them about. I've seen the footage of the Sony XR520 at its best now and I have to say that its actually just as awesome as the Canon HV40's footage. It was just took quite a bit of searching, and waiting from someone to upload a video in such high quality to youtube to be able to witness it. Most people dont upload in the absolute best they can.

This footage here :

YouTube - Bird washing itself in Bryant Park, New York

when you click on the HD and it in high definition, looks awesome, and when I sit back on the my sofa, about 8ft away from my tv, just looks so realistic that I could put my hand through the tv and grab the little bird. The video is of the HDR-XR500VE which is the 120gb version of the one i'm getting. Apart from capacity, they're identical. So I think the Sony HDR-XR520VE will bring me a lot of fun.

[chrishull3]

Originally Posted by richardstringer

I've heard that after about 3 years video footage thats on tape can become very degraded. I think though i'm definately gonna buy the Sony HDR-XR520VE because I mean you've got about 6-8 hours continuous of the best quality footage so thats enough for me to take little bits of video of my children here and there. When I take them tenerife next year i'll be buying a laptop pc before then anyway so if I run out of hard disc space I can transfer it to the laptop. Plus I dont have to worry about buying as high a quality mini dv tapes as I can afford or have to carry them about. I've seen the footage of the Sony XR520 at its best now and I have to say that its actually just as awesome as the Canon HV40's footage. It was just took quite a bit of searching, and waiting from someone to upload a video in such high quality to youtube to be able to witness it. Most people dont upload in the absolute best they can.

This footage here :

YouTube - Bird washing itself in Bryant Park, New York

when you click on the HD and it in high definition, looks awesome, and when I sit back on the my sofa, about 8ft away from my tv, just looks so realistic that I could put my hand through the tv and grab the little bird. The video is of the HDR-XR500VE which is the 120gb version of the one i'm getting. Apart from capacity, they're identical. So I think the Sony HDR-XR520VE will bring me a lot of fun.

hope you enjoy it, its a great cam i have the sr 12 as well as a hv30 but i hardly use the sr 12 since ive got the hv30 so much easier, i dont know why you asked on here as you had already made your mind up,any way good filming with your cam

[MarkE19]

Originally Posted by richardstringer

I've heard that after about 3 years video footage thats on tape can become very degraded.

It is all down to how you store the tapes! On a shelf in bright sunlight and covered in dust you will be lucky to get them to replay after just a couple of months. Stored in a cool dark area with protection from dust they should last for 10+ years.
I have some old video8 (analogue) tapes that are around 15 years old and still play fine when I borrow a cam that can play them. My ~9 year old miniDV tapes all play back as good as they did when I first recorded them.

Mark.

[richardstringer]

Originally Posted by chrishull3

hope you enjoy it, its a great cam i have the sr 12 as well as a hv30 but i hardly use the sr 12 since ive got the hv30 so much easier, i dont know why you asked on here as you had already made your mind up,any way good filming with your cam

I was just very confused as to which one to get, but then only yesterday I saw the you tube footage of that bird video above and it made up my mind. Its just awesome and i'm sure when I see myself and kids on tv on video that good i'll be buzzing because if it looks so real. I'm thinking about trying to make a small documantary some time or maybe a liottle film too, you know, have some fun with the camcorder. Where's the best place or site to learn about composition etc... I mean on making short films. Because i'm clueless about what shots to take etc...

[chrishull3]

Originally Posted by richardstringer

I was just very confused as to which one to get, but then only yesterday I saw the you tube footage of that bird video above and it made up my mind. Its just awesome and i'm sure when I see myself and kids on tv on video that good i'll be buzzing because if it looks so real. I'm thinking about trying to make a small documantary some time or maybe a liottle film too, you know, have some fun with the camcorder. Where's the best place or site to learn about composition etc... I mean on making short films. Because i'm clueless about what shots to take etc...

If you were impressed with the utube video you should have no trouble with your films, its a learning process,outdoors the hv40 footage is as good as the sony and as i have said far easier to edit, good luck with your filming

[senu]

Originally Posted by chrishull3

If you were impressed with the utube video you should have no trouble with your films, its a learning process,outdoors the hv40 footage is as good as the sony and as i have said far easier to edit, good luck with your filming

Ditto Chris
To the OP
I was just a little concerned that you needed to ( maybe unconsciously) dismiss tape ( HDV) despite being impressed with the HV 40 footage in order to justify your current choice
There is no doubt the newer generation AVCHD HDD/ memory stick camcorders are also capable of jaw dropping footage output
Yuo tube is perhaps not a great way of comparing footage as all sorts of compression may have happened to make it impossible to judge just how good the original footage was TBH

Back to tape however , for any aspiring film making you will still find tape offers a lot of advantages which are hushed up about by the marketeering of the newer formats
Tapes definitely last a lot longer than 3 years
Tapes will degrade if you treat them badly but store an HDD in a garden shed or dusty loft and you will find it refuses to fire up..
This is for anyone else thinkng about the kit.. the OP has already made his mind up !..
There are various books websites on video making. Magaznes are far fwer now. Saing that, they all have favourite editing software they seem to be partial to
if you PM or email me I could send you a DVD on Video Basics .. although it predates the current generation of AVCHD camcorders, the principles are the same

[richardstringer]

Well what it was, was that I had made my mind up to buy the Sony, then saw the Canon HV40 and did a scooby sound effect, the know the one that goes "ughh", and that says I was like, "oh my god, how awesome is that image quality". But then I was thinking about the HV40 seriously, and up until I saw the little bird video I posted on page 1, I had only seen excellent Sony video footage, and not breathtaking video, so I opened this thread. Then I saw the little bird video and I did the old scooby doo effect again that I do by accident when i'm shocked by something thats breathtakingly awesome.

By the way, anyone know roughly how long the standard battery with the Sony HDR-XR520 camcorder lasts? I'm gonna get myself a spare Energizer one in a couple of weeks from a webiste called Tantronics which is excellent for top quality Energizer, Ross etc... batteries as replacements. But until I do get it, i'm wondering how long the standard one might last.

[FauxPas]

Isnt there in fact very little difference between the HV20, HV30 and HV40?
There was something to do with a native support of 24p, but not sure of that was true or not (was a while ago I looked for this info).

I knoe that there is little difference between the HV20 and 30, except a slightly better screen and the colour that is...