[MikeKay1976]

Hi

Someone was telling me if you live in a cable area (sadly i dont) and you have the basic cable tv package but plug in a eurovox cable box, it decodes ALL of the cable channels for free, and becasue you arwe not modding the box, it isnt illegal.

is this true?? surely not?

[Chris Muriel]

Using the box itself in this way would be illegal under EU piracy laws.
No different from buying a chipped box at a car boot sale or computer fair or from Ebay.

Chris Muriel, Manchester

[OneTrouble]

the box is legal..connecting to the feed is illegal..

using the internet is legal..downloading a movie which is a hookey is illegal..

up to you how you use your equipment

[MikeKay1976]

its a bit of a loophole tho isnt it??

thre are lots of legal uses for the internet, however what possible use is a cable box which you are not allowed to hook up to your cable feed?

[OneTrouble]

in there world its called freeview

Yea, it's the act of decoding channels to which you are not subscribed to that is illegal.

In fact, as I recall, I think the Cable Companies have a few rules surrounding the use of decoding equipment that is not supplied by them. Which annoys me as you cannot easily replace your STB with a better quality one purchased by yourself. Unlike in Germany where you are free to purchase a STB of YOUR choice, and free yourself from the monthly rental fees.

This is why there is little or no UK cable equipment available and we are limited to importing equipment which usually originates there.

Legalities aside, I think it's rediculous that I'm forced to pay extra use a service that I have paid for in another room, Telewest even tried this with broadband when it first came out, limiting modem communication to one MAC address only! However people soon realised that you could get around this with a router, perhaps forcing their hand so there is now no such restrictions.

So, I guess it comes down to the pressure we put on our service providers to change the way they work, I managed to get a second STB from telewest by threatening to defect to Sky.... That may be worth a try wit Virgin....

Running the boxes is illegal and all you need is cable modem or tv connection to use them, in fact any connection via the coax, yea those 2, phone no workie - different thingy.

Im thinking if it wasnt for sky then, you never know, we might be able to buy nice boxes with HDDs. When I say Sky I mean because of the rediculously priced channels they offer to cable making it impossible for cable to give everyone flat rate TV, because if it was all flat rate, they wouldnt care about what box you used and prolly be happier with less repairs due to worn out boxes.

[UnTruE]

i go with OneTrouble on this 1...the eurovox, dbox, starview box etc are all legal to buy...its just connecting them to the virgin input that is illegal. People also connect them via a T-piece off their internet if they are with virgin media, so they dont even need a t.v package...but thats against the law

[swannie]

Using any device to obtain services without payment is illegal

It would be an offence of Obtaining Services Dishonestly, as covered by the new Fraud Act 2006.

You could also probably argue that if you bought such a device to specifically obtain sevices dishonestly then the actual possession of the device may be an offence of Possession of an Article for use in Fraud, also under The Fraud Act 2006.

[UnTruE]

"The eurovox/starview/dbox etc is sold as a free to air receiver. This is the unit's sole intended use, any other function of this product is not guarenteed. The unit may in some instances be used to view encrypted channels if firmware is loaded, and emulator enabled. It is the user's responsibility to ensure any relevant subscriptions are paid to the service provider before using this product for this use. Failure to do so may contravene UK law. It is strongly recommended that written permission is obtained from the service provider to using the unit for this purpose."

Which means that the box is legal to buy and use as a free to air receiver. Connecting it to a service provider and turning emulator on...is illegal

[swannie]

Originally Posted by UnTruE

"The eurovox/starview/dbox etc is sold as a free to air receiver. This is the unit's sole intended use, any other function of this product is not guarenteed. The unit may in some instances be used to view encrypted channels if firmware is loaded, and emulator enabled. It is the user's responsibility to ensure any relevant subscriptions are paid to the service provider before using this product for this use. Failure to do so may contravene UK law. It is strongly recommended that written permission is obtained from the service provider to using the unit for this purpose."

Which means that the box is legal to buy and use as a free to air receiver. Connecting it to a service provider and turning emulator on...is illegal

UnTruE

We are actually agreeing, if the Eurovox is bought and used solely as a freeview box then thats perfectly legal.

If however it is purchased as a means of obtaining services by dishonesty then it is illegal to possess. It's all to do with the 'mens rea' or guilty mind that counts. If a person possesses it solely to commit fraud then it's mere possession under the Fraud Act 2006 could technically be an offence.....proving it may be very difficult though !!

[UnTruE]

very true, but if some1 was going to buy a set top box to watch "freeview" then you would just go out and pay £20 for a freeview box. No1 in the right mind would go out and buy a eurovox and pay upto 5 times more to do the same thing. Im my eyes, any1 who buys a eurovox/starview/dbox etc is buying it for 1 reason and 1 reason only...

[SeanT]

Does that not depend - the eurovox box connected to an existing cable feed at that price is still cheaper in fact than buying a new freeview box and having a (largely price-fixed locally) digital aerial fitted.....

[swannie]

Originally Posted by SeanT

Does that not depend - the eurovox box connected to an existing cable feed at that price is still cheaper in fact than buying a new freeview box and having a (largely price-fixed locally) digital aerial fitted.....

Sean

And thats why I said it all depends on the persons intention when they buy the box, if its solely to use as a freeview box then of course its no problem. The issue is if its used or intended for use for more than that !!

No matter which way you look at it, if its used to dishonestly obtain subscription TV for free, then its a criminal offence, not just a breach of terms and conditions !!

[KevinPedrick]

Connecting it up to a Virgin cable is also against the Virgin Media terms and conditions of service.

[OneTrouble]

no point buying eurovox for freeview when u get the same which gives u all channels.

if you dont want to watch free cable then get a freeview box from tesco

job done

[SeanT]

But if you had moved into a house with a Virgin cable poking through the wall, often despite the previous owners / your attempts to have Virgin remove the cable (because they won't), then you wouldn't be bound by their T&Cs which you would never be expected to have read - indeed you may even just think it's a normal aerial or legacy cable connection.

Originally Posted by KevinPedrick

Connecting it up to a Virgin cable is also against the Virgin Media terms and conditions of service.

[pesser]

is there anyway of them detecting a person using it

[UnTruE]

Originally Posted by pesser

is there anyway of them detecting a person using it

Nope

[mike7]

Let's not pussyfoot about this being legal or illegal. Obtaining Goods or Services without legitimate payment is THEFT. You are stealing just in the same way someone might nick a car or break into your house. At any time these devices on the network could be detected and you could find yourself in court. At the very least you could expect your equipment,including the TV, being disposed of and a fat fine.

[dan1979]

I was reading something about these yesterday, apparently if someone in your street orders a PPV film you get access to it, but if they pause or rewind it that's what you see on your screen. I imagine that would be a touch frustrating.

By the sounds of it though it's fairly easy and a lot of people do it,

[mike7]

Originally Posted by dan1979

I was reading something about these yesterday, apparently if someone in your street orders a PPV film you get access to it, but if they pause or rewind it that's what you see on your screen. I imagine that would be a touch frustrating.

By the sounds of it though it's fairly easy and a lot of people do it,

I can't say I've ever seen anyone elses PPV selection on my TV. Sounds like a fault to me.

On Watchdog this week there was a story about a Virgin Media customer getting billed for a large quantity of films they had never ordered or watched. It is being investigated and I would suspect it was down to a 'cloned' box tapping into some innocent customer's account. I hope this prompts VM to locate this kind of fraud and find ways of preventing it.

[OneTrouble]

lol no one goes in no ones account mate

vm know what it is..fraud is to cover it up on watchdog

they statted modified boxes have been used to order the movies...so take a guess what that means...or go to your local pub and ask someone...

Originally Posted by mike7

I can't say I've ever seen anyone elses PPV selection on my TV. Sounds like a fault to me.

On Watchdog this week there was a story about a Virgin Media customer getting billed for a large quantity of films they had never ordered or watched. It is being investigated and I would suspect it was down to a 'cloned' box tapping into some innocent customer's account. I hope this prompts VM to locate this kind of fraud and find ways of preventing it.

[pesser]

Originally Posted by UnTruE

Nope

EXCEEELLENT

[KevinPedrick]

I'm afraid this thread has now crossed the line and will be closed.

For future reference, the discussion of viewing pay-TV without payment is against the AVForums rules.