[PoochJD]

Hi,

Oh dear! It seems that Warner Bros have sneakily released a pre-censored edition of THE DARK KNIGHT for UK Region 2 DVD / Blu-Ray owners!

This news comes from the Melon-Farmers website, so it's going to be accurate! According to Callum, a member of the MF Forum:

In the cinema version, Heath Ledger puts the Stanley knife in the hoodlum's mouth and - from a reverse shot - the viewer sees the Joker thrust his hand. The reverse shot was quite effective because you only saw Heath moving his arm, then the reaction of the other hoodlum as the body fell to the floor. Whereas, in the DVD, the Joker asks "Why so serious?" and the next shot is of the body crumbling to the floor and of the hoodlum's reaction. I'm 100% certain this has been edited (you can tell from the music) and its akin to the poor editing seen in "Die Hard With A Vengence's" elevator scene. Additionally, people who I saw it at the cinema with commented upon how they felt it was edited, because the scene seemed incongruous i.e. no explanation why the hoodlum doesn't scream or what injury he has. In the cinema version, the Joker's "energetic thrust" partly explained this.

According to the BBFC:
- Cinema Version has a running time of 152m 03s (Uncut).
- Home Viewing Version has a running time of 145m 48s (No cuts listed).

"The BBFC Guidelines at ‘12’ state that ‘violence must not dwell on detail’ and that ‘there should be no emphasis on injuries or blood’ and whilst THE DARK KNIGHT does contain a good deal of violence, all of it fits within that definition. For example, in one of the stronger scenes, Batman repeatedly beats the Joker during an interrogation. The blows however are all masked from the camera and despite both their weight and force; the Joker shows no sign of injury. There are also scenes in which the Joker threatens first a man and then a woman with a knife and whilst these do have a significant degree of menace, without any actual violence shown they were also acceptably placed at ‘12’. In the final analysis, THE DARK KNIGHT is a superhero movie and the violence it contains exists within that context, with both Batman and the Joker apparently indestructible no matter what is thrown at them. THE DARK KNIGHT also contains some special make up effects that whilst clearly not real, have the potential to be moderately frightening."

So... once again, it seems that UK viewers aren't getting the full version!


Pooch

[IAN P]

I can't believe there's a 6 minute difference.

Blu-ray at 24fps should match the cinema length surely?

The Dark Knight thread on here suggests it is uncut,or are peoples memories of their cinema trip not quite accurate?

[KevD]

Think its been discussed in the Dark Night thread in the Blu-ray section, and generally agreed there is no cuts, although I havent kept up with it. The Bluray rinning time is 152

145m 48s on the PAL DVD would simply be the speedup of about 4%???

[IAN P]

152 minutes,yeah that's the same as the cinema.

If this has been cut,i think there would be a bit more noise coming from the forums i read.

[brian s]

Originally Posted by IAN P

152 minutes,yeah that's the same as the cinema.

If this has been cut,i think there would be a bit more noise coming from the forums i read.

Is it really that long? Damn this is on my Xmas list. I'll be a sleep 90 minutes in after the Xmas dinner.


Bri

[Geoff_D]

Heh. If I had a penny for every time someone squealed that something was cut when in fact they were talking rubbish, I'd have at least, um, 5p. My point is that proof is needed, not someone simply saying it's cut on the basis of their memory.

Don't get me wrong, at the cinema I also thought that there was an actual arm movement when Joker slices Gambol. My memory still seems to think there was. But every video version I've seen (UK and US, through fair means and foul ) plays out in exactly the same way: no arm movement. And because I cannot replay my memory, I'm inclined to go with what's on physical media.

[IAN P]

Geoff,if you've seen the US and UK discs and they are the same then i'll go with your opinion that they're uncut.

[MrE26]

That scene definitely appears to have been trimmed, but if it has, i suspect the MPAA are the culprits. The UK BD/DVD is identical to both the US version & the theatrical version.

[Daliah Lavi 2]

The Melon-Farmers website is only as accurate as the people that supply it with information. And that's half the problem with Wiki etc.

As far as I'm aware (from an film industry friend) The Dark Knight did indeed suffer trims for a PG-13.

[PoochJD]

Hi,

Well, I'm only the messenger, here.

I do trust the Melon Farmers site, though I don't wish to claim that their forum member is 100% accurate. Mistakes, memory errors, etc can be made easily.

I am simply passing on information, that suggests that something small has been cut (or may well have been pre-cut by Warners in the UK) due to adverse reaction to the film being given a 12A certificate in Britain, and then a 12 for DVD, and Warner's wanting to avoid any more controversy over the film's alleged glorifying of knifes as weapons in an alleged family-movie!

If I can find out more, I will post the information and/or links.


Pooch

[Geoff_D]

Poochie, the UK Blu-ray contains the exact same version of the film as seen on the US disc. I haven't seen the R2 DVD, but that scene plays exactly as described on the HD editions. I also saw the movie through, ahem, other methods a few months ago and that scene above was, again, exactly the same.

I don't doubt that the film had plenty of pre-release trims to pare down the level of physical violence, but I do not believe that it has been cut post-release. If it has, then the cut has been made to all versions, UK, US, whatever.

[McFaber]

Originally Posted by PoochJD

Hi,

Well, I'm only the messenger, here.

Shoot him!....

[soundstory]

according to the BBFC web site it was passed without cuts with a run time of 152m 18s, then states that:

"When a film is transferred to video the running time will be shorter by approximately 4% due to the differing number of frames per second. This does not mean that the video version has been cut or re-edited."

[IAN P]

Originally Posted by soundstory

according to the BBFC web site it was passed without cuts with a run time of 152m 18s, then states that:

"When a film is transferred to video the running time will be shorter by approximately 4% due to the differing number of frames per second. This does not mean that the video version has been cut or re-edited."

That 4% only occurs during the film to dvd process,it has no bearing on the 24 fps blu-ray transfer.

The film shown at the cinema should be of equal length as the blu-ray.

[Lord Bunky]

I remember that scene from the cinema version, and its the same. It was only a 12 cert. I have the US blu-ray and you dont see anything. Just "why so serious" then the reaction.

If there was a cut anywhere, it would be the MPAA, as said in a post above.

Runtime of the BD is 152 mins.

Also, i've had region B Blu-rays that have had the same running time on them, same as the R2 DVD does..Due to lazy art studio work.

Ps. Ive also seen the Warner DVD that was doing the rounds. Same cut too.

[Pincho Paxton]

Well 152 minutes would still be 152 minutes with such a small edit, and there is a small arm movement anyway... I think. Or is it my memory?

[sore napper]

The scene in question I believe is the same as what I seen on the big screen.

However, on another scene. In the bank at the start when they are counting the shots and the Joker tells the other person that he's out. The man stands up and gets shot. I thought that when I watched this in the cinema that it showed the man fully in screen getting shot and falling over. On the blu ray the man isn't fully in screen and you don't really see him falling over.

[Battlestar]

Pretty sure the film is the same version as the UK cinema print and the US DVD and bluray. However, this is not to say that the US MPAA did not get hold of it first and trim it before it was even realsed in the US.

I remeber watching the Scene in question in the cinema. I thought it looked cut then. Could just be poor editing , could the US censors.

[Knyght_byte]

maybe they cut some of the jokers scenes?...I only ask because lots of critics plus a fair amount of public folks reckon ledgers performance was amazing, almost legendary in some writeups......when did this happen in the film??? He was good, but only in comparison to Bale.....And definitely not a patch on Nicholsons Joker in the Keaton Batman films. Half of Ledgers mannerisms came from Nicholsons Joke for one thing, and he didnt do a lot else......about the only thing I saw that had good timing was the detonator at the hospital...which he presumably half inched from Clooney in Oceans 11 at the Vault door. I'm sorry the guys passed on, and will happily admit that he had the potential to go on to do some good acting judging by his performance, but in no way was his Joker anything more than a good bit of hollywood action film acting.

Sorry, had to get that off my chest......I've loved Nicholsons Joker ever since I saw the film in the cinema, he captured the character perfectly.

[rebel_scum]

I kind of doubt that. It's just numpties being numpties, but on the internet.

[Captain_Danger]

I have no doubt that the MPAA cut brief bits of violence before release, although I have not seen the R2 release, I highly doubt its cut.

From how it was described by the OP thats exactly what is present on my R1 DVD of Dark Knight.

Its sloppy editing for sure, and a bit of a cop out in terms of on-screen violence.

There are scenes in Casino Royale and the Bourne films which show quite extreme acts of violence, yet the two Nolan Batman films are edited together in a way which is very "kid/parent friendly". I am not sure if thats at the behest of the MPAA, the studio or Nolan himself, but ive seen far more violent 12A's recently than what either Batman Begins or Dark Knight shows.

PS, I would love to see a unrated cut, if one actually exists that is...

[Pincho Paxton]

I don't see how the knife cut would kill the guy anyway. It's very odd.

[Captain_Danger]

Originally Posted by Pincho Paxton

I don't see how the knife cut would kill the guy anyway. It's very odd.

It is my belief that the Joker slit his throat rather than his face / cheeks, at least, thats how I "read it".

[Pincho Paxton]

Originally Posted by Captain_Danger

It is my belief that the Joker slit his throat rather than his face / cheeks, at least, thats how I "read it".

So do I really, but more creative to cut the mouth, more fitting.

[minty_71]

try this website, it lists all versions of movies on dvd and blu ray..all regions.. ect. and it tells you if there cut and whats the best region to buy.. i use it alot as im a huge dvd buyer.. hope this helps anyone out..

www.dvdcompare.net

[zulfy1]

Gutted!

Once again Brits getting shafted and short changed by medlesome OAP censosrship types!!!

[IAN P]

Originally Posted by zulfy1

Gutted!

Once again Brits getting shafted and short changed by medlesome OAP censosrship types!!!

It hasn't been cut,it's the same as the cinema version.