[onefivenine]

Are all these old movies being released on blu-ray really HD or are they upscaled/upconvertions?

I mean, if I have an upconverting DVD player will a bluray of an 80s movie like Die Hard be that much better than my original DVD disks? (obviously HD extras and disk content aside).

Sorry this probably has been asked a zillion times.... maybe they have rescanned the entire movies.

[tomd84]

Originally Posted by onefivenine

Are all these old movies being released on blu-ray really HD or are they upscaled/upconvertions?

I mean, if I have an upconverting DVD player will a bluray of an 80s movie like Die Hard be that much better than my original DVD disks? (obviously HD extras and disk content aside).

Sorry this probably has been asked a zillion times.... maybe they have rescanned the entire movies.

Basiclly FILM is higher quaility then DVD was, so it would be a better picture.

[onefivenine]

Originally Posted by tomd84

Basiclly FILM is higher quaility then DVD was, so it would be a better picture.

So blu-rays etc are all completely new rescans of the original film footage?

My first question maybe should have been:
Are all these old movies being released on blu-ray really HD or are they upscaled/upconvertions of the DVD?

[tomd84]

Originally Posted by onefivenine

So blu-rays etc are all completely new rescans of the original film footage?

My first question maybe should have been:
Are all these old movies being released on blu-ray really HD or are they upscaled/upconvertions of the DVD?

Yep! they go back to the master and transfer it at the highest quaility it can handel

[Pincho Paxton]

Originally Posted by onefivenine

So blu-rays etc are all completely new rescans of the original film footage?

My first question maybe should have been:
Are all these old movies being released on blu-ray really HD or are they upscaled/upconvertions of the DVD?

They are remastered at a resolution even higher than Blu Ray....4k. But I think that the old films contain too much grain most of the time. Sometimes they try to remove the grain as well. Die Hard is probably great, but back to the 70's, and you start to get some iffy looking images. Not in all films however, because Star Wars A New Hope is one of the best quality HD images around.

[LanceR]

Originally Posted by Pincho Paxton

They are remastered at a resolution even higher than Blu Ray....4k. But I think that the old films contain too much grain most of the time. Sometimes they try to remove the grain as well. Die Hard is probably great, but back to the 70's, and you start to get some iffy looking images. Not in all films however, because Star Wars A New Hope is one of the best quality HD images around.

Christ man you always start on this!! grain is part of the film get over it, it doesn't mean you get any less stunning images! And to brand everything pre 70's as 'iffy' is completely wrong!

To the orginal poster, DVD downgrades the original master as it cannot handle the resolution of the original master no matter howold the print. Blu ray get's you closer to the original master so therefore higher resolution closer to the original cinematic experience.

Lose the words upscaled and downscaled they have absolutely no place in the transfer of high resolution disc.

[LanceR]

Originally Posted by onefivenine

So blu-rays etc are all completely new rescans of the original film footage?

My first question maybe should have been:
Are all these old movies being released on blu-ray really HD or are they upscaled/upconvertions of the DVD?

No.

[Hugh]

Originally Posted by lancerumbolt

Christ man you always start on this!! grain is part of the film get over it, it doesn't mean you get any less stunning images! And to brand everything pre 70's as 'iffy' is completely wrong!

To the orginal poster, DVD downgrades the original master as it cannot handle the resolution of the original master no matter howold the print. Blu ray get's you closer to the original master so therefore higher resolution closer to the original cinematic experience.

Lose the words upscaled and downscaled they have absolutely no place in the transfer of high resolution disc.

The ignore list is your friend.

The only time I see Pincho's drivel now is when it's quoted and I quickly fly past that knowing it will not be any use.

[Pincho Paxton]

Originally Posted by lancerumbolt

Christ man you always start on this!! grain is part of the film get over it, it doesn't mean you get any less stunning images! And to brand everything pre 70's as 'iffy' is completely wrong!

To the orginal poster, DVD downgrades the original master as it cannot handle the resolution of the original master no matter howold the print. Blu ray get's you closer to the original master so therefore higher resolution closer to the original cinematic experience.

Lose the words upscaled and downscaled they have absolutely no place in the transfer of high resolution disc.

You have to give an honest answer in a thread that might be read by the general public. Only film enthusiasts are interested in grain, and I write for all readers. The OP asked what the picture of old movies will look like, so I told them. No ********ting about how 4k is the higher res fantastic image that it's been written as by you guys.

[LanceR]

Originally Posted by Hugh

The ignore list is your friend.

The only time I see Pincho's drivel now is when it's quoted and I quickly fly past that knowing it will not be any use.

I don't know, I guess I get some perverse joy from reading Pincho's posts!

[Pincho Paxton]

Originally Posted by lancerumbolt

I don't know, I guess I get some perverse joy from reading Pincho's posts!

We have had screenshots that prove I am right, so I don't know why anybody criticizes me. Is anybody actually saying that old films don't contain grain?

Jaws?
An American Werewolf In London?
Close Encounters?

If the OP likes grain they can still buy the films.

[LanceR]

Originally Posted by Pincho Paxton

You have to give an honest answer in a thread that might be read by the general public. Only film enthusiasts are interested in grain, and I write for all readers. The OP asked what the picture of old movies will look like, so I told them. No ********ting about how 4k is the higher res fantastic image that it's been written as by you guys.

The trouble is it's not an honest answer, it's opinion.

[LanceR]

Originally Posted by Pincho Paxton

We have had screenshots that prove I am right, so I don't know why anybody criticizes me. Is anybody actually saying that old films don't contain grain?

No they don't say that, grain is there it is PART of film.

[Pincho Paxton]

Originally Posted by lancerumbolt

No they don't say that, grain is there it is PART of film.

Which the OP can decide for them self. My post doesn't take your opinion away. It just makes the opinion more clear.

[LanceR]

Originally Posted by pincho Paxton

which The Op Can Decide For Them Self. My Post Doesn't Take Your Opinion Away. It Just Makes The Opinion More Clear.

Ookaayy

[CrazyHorse]

Very interesting piece by Robert Harris over at The Digital Bits site, well worth reading if you're interested in the grain removal/DNR issues that seem to be arising all too often in the new Hi-Def/Blu-ray arena.

Would love to hear Pincho's views on the article too (though I'm kind of regretting thinking that as I'm typing it! ).

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/articl...ris062408.html

[LanceR]

Originally Posted by CrazyHorse

Very interesting piece by Robert Harris over at The Digital Bits site, well worth reading if you're interested in the grain removal/DNR issues that seem to be arising all too often in the new Hi-Def/Blu-ray arena.

Would love to hear Pincho's views on the article too (though I'm kind of regretting thinking that as I'm typing it! ).

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/articl...ris062408.html

Robert Harris is absolute god when it comes to this stuff... but i like you have a perverse interest in seeing what gem Pinchot will come out with.

[IAN P]

Have you seen the screen shots of Patton and The Longest Day over on AVS they have stripped away all the grain and now everything looks nice and waxy.I,m sure Pincho will see these as being perfect,however the rest of us film lovers will not buy them until they're redone.The "oldies" can de done correctly,it depends which moron is in charge of the process.

[vader100]

The Longest Day has been remastered to within an inch of it's life. Look's almost like the actors have been photoshopped in a la Forrest Gump.

[Pincho Paxton]

Originally Posted by CrazyHorse

Very interesting piece by Robert Harris over at The Digital Bits site, well worth reading if you're interested in the grain removal/DNR issues that seem to be arising all too often in the new Hi-Def/Blu-ray arena.

Would love to hear Pincho's views on the article too (though I'm kind of regretting thinking that as I'm typing it! ).

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/articl...ris062408.html

Read the article. He's a God? I looked at each line as an individual sentence, they are even broken up that way a lot of the time. And each line has a biased inaccuracy embedded in it.

Remove it at your peril, as layers of real problems may then arise.

Not necessarily.

Do the DVD buying public and studio executives truly believe that Chapin, Keaton, Ford, Wellman, Welles, Hitchcock, Lean, Mamoulian and others were a bunch of hacks?

These people would have thought they were in a dream if they saw colour HD images. They would want them even more than I do.

Is it possible that Bitzer, Burks, Young and Toland had not a clue, and need some lowly digital tech to clean up their errors?

If they knew how to clean up the picture they would pay a fortune to have it done.

I don't think so.

No... you just don't think at all.

Why, all of a sudden, is it left to people who wouldn't know which side of a camera to point toward an actor to totally re-write the history and look of our cinema?

Speculation. I have awards in photography.

Passion toward the concern that our film heritage is in jeopardy, and compassion toward those individuals involved on both sides, in a virtual tug of war.

The originals will always retain the grain. No heritage is lost.

As an organization Blu-ray has failed because it allows software that does not deliver their promise of quality to hit the marketplace. This is something that should have been in place since Day One.

Blu Ray delivers a picture that is not blurry. You can't complain about NR, and then ask for a blurry picture instead.

Someone at the studio makes the decision that "our films can't have grain."

A well-meant decision…

but wrong.

From a guy who doesn't actually know how to remove it properly.

You get rid of grain by throwing the image out of focus.

Very funny!

The folks behind Blu-ray need to take a position.

Is their system to be used as promised, to give the home theater enthusiast the cinema experience?

Or will our film heritage hence forth look like video games?

Err what about the option of an image without grain that looks nothing like a computer game?

Studio executives need to be educated about grain, whatever it is that makes up an image and how it gets to Blu-ray, or sit back and allow someone else to deal with the technical end of things.

So do you.

This is about harmful and improper grain and high frequency removal that can have a horrific affect on catalog titles from every studio and copyright holder across the board.

That is the concern.

If they look too bad they can be re-released.

Can we just do nothing and allow a negative trend to continue?

With your knowledge, I would expect a negative trend to continue in your fridge as you haven't solved the case of the jam jar lid yet.

And Mona Lisa, yes you managed to make it blurry. Well done!

[Pincho Paxton]

Originally Posted by IAN P

Have you seen the screen shots of Patton and The Longest Day over on AVS they have stripped away all the grain and now everything looks nice and waxy.I,m sure Pincho will see these as being perfect,however the rest of us film lovers will not buy them until they're redone.The "oldies" can de done correctly,it depends which moron is in charge of the process.

The DVD images are blurry as well. You have a choice between a blurry DVD image, or a waxy HD image. Neither is right. I would need to see an actual film acetate to see what the original image could possibly look like. and to see if is possible to remove the grain without after effects. Maybe the grain is slightly yellow? That would make life easy.

A scientific approach might work, as grain will slow certain elements down as they pass through an acetate. Then you have a speed meter, and remove the grain from the slower speeding particle reactions on a computer.

[CrazyHorse]

Originally Posted by Pincho Paxton

Read the article. He's a God?

Er...I said no such thing.

In case you know little of Robert A. Harris, he is a highly respected film restorer who has worked in the industry for many, many years, supervising the original restorations of amongst others; Lawrence of Arabia; Spartacus; Rear Window & Vertigo.

I'm pretty sure he knows what he's talking about.

Regarding the rest of your comments....well, I'm still taking them in!!!

[LanceR]

Originally Posted by CrazyHorse

Er...I said no such thing.

In case you know little of Robert A. Harris, he is a highly respected film restorer who has worked in the industry for many, many years, supervising the original restorations of amongst others; Lawrence of Arabia; Spartacus; Rear Window & Vertigo.

I'm pretty sure he knows what he's talking about.

Regarding the rest of your comments....well, I'm still taking them in!!!

Erm it was me who said that... for the reasons you've mentioned.

[CrazyHorse]

Originally Posted by lancerumbolt

Erm it was me who said that... for the reasons you've mentioned.

Yeah, I know...but I just had to correct Pincho about something and the rest of his comments have rendered me speechless!

[LanceR]

I don't agree that it is Blu ray's fault as mentioned in the article it is the fault of the studio requesting super scrubbed images.

[LanceR]

Originally Posted by CrazyHorse

Yeah, I know...but I just had to correct Pincho about something and the rest of his comments have rendered me speechless!

[CrazyHorse]

Originally Posted by lancerumbolt

I don't agree that it is Blu ray's fault as mentioned in the article it is the fault of the studio requesting super scrubbed images.

Yes I agree with you it's not the Blu-ray format itself that is at fault, just the growing use of inappropriate DNR when not really necessary.

Unfortunately some studios seem to be taking too much notice of the wrong people who are complaining about film grain and as you say are "requesting super scrubbed images". They obviously want to sell as many units as possible of an old classic reissue and to them that means polishing the image to within an inch of its life, making it all glossy, shiny & new for the PS3 generation. What's more frightening is that it's happening with much newer films too!

A shame, as these kind of opinions and views (as held by the likes of Pincho) are the antithesis of what film restoration, presentation & preservation are truly about.

[Pincho Paxton]

Originally Posted by CrazyHorse

Er...I said no such thing.

In case you know little of Robert A. Harris, he is a highly respected film restorer who has worked in the industry for many, many years, supervising the original restorations of amongst others; Lawrence of Arabia; Spartacus; Rear Window & Vertigo.

I'm pretty sure he knows what he's talking about.

Regarding the rest of your comments....well, I'm still taking them in!!!

Highly respected? Did you actually see what he did to the Mona Lisa? And that's a single image, he didn't even retain the brush strokes.

[CrazyHorse]

Originally Posted by Pincho Paxton

Highly respected? Did you actually see what he did to the Mona Lisa? And that's a single image, he didn't even retain the brush strokes.

Are you being serious? Sorry Pincho, I find it hard to tell most of the time.

[elicash73]

The DNR issue is easy to solve:

Remove the grain with a photoshop filter then just have a java menu overlay of a five second loop of animated grain. This can be selectively applied from the setup menu of the dvd as you would with audio or subtitles so that those that still want sugar on their cereal will be appeased.

I don't know why someone hasn't already come up with this.