[stephentw]

Blu Ray seems to be in a frustrating position at the moment, its undoubtedly superior to dvd but still seems to be the domain of ps3 owners or people with high end av systems.

You would think that most films would start coming out on both Blu and dvd by now or soon, but it doesn't seem to be the case, in some cases films that came out on both in the states have only hit the uk on dvd!

Why is this? Lack of support for the format from the studios? Lack of sales? High prices? Will it ever change or do we settle for a multi format situation with dvd still dominant?

Discuss!

[Badger0-0]

Blu-ray will take over, without a doubt, for a while, IMO.

But only when the players get dirt cheap (£50), which, is at least 2-3 years away.

Most people don't care about HD and certainly won't pay any extra for it.

I know a good few people who have $ky or VM, but won't touch HD, because, in all honesty, they can't even afford to buy an HD telly, let alone subscribe to the HD services.

Even then, I'd guess BD will be pretty much displaced by something else.

Let's face it, Blu-ray has won against a superior format

Sony win for now, but that's pretty typical.

[domtheone]

Doesn't help that the wrong format won the war (imo) for a start

Prices are rediculous (high street) and most peeps are happy with DVD so thay aint going to pay 3-5 times the price of a DVD for a film.

Think the average tv size is going up although you would wonder where peeps are putting the TV's given that Housebuilders are building flats/houses that are barely big enough for pet's let alone humans

Did see a BBC HD advert on prime time tv the other day so now that it's being pushed by them (and the likes of Sky) it'll grow and grow.

Bound to become more popular, just a question of how much time it takes.

[earlybath]

I have a HD Ready TV but I can't justify forking out for a Bluray player while I have so many DVD's. I'm thinking I'll wait until an affordable Freesat PVR comes onto the market before I actually try HD and then consider switching disk formats later.

[jayden28]

I can not see blu ray ever over taking dvd,blu ray hardware and software will have to come down big time in price,can you see blu ray players coming down to £30-50 within 4-5 years,no way.The most important thing is the average person will not even notice the difference between a dvd and blu ray picture,just ask my brother!!.

[tbeachly]

No doubting blu-ray disks are expensive but it is possible to get them for fairly reasonable price if you shop around.

I have bought Apocalypto, Underworld, Stargate, the Departed, Close Encounters, 3:10 to Yuma and a few others for less than £10 each. I do find it crazy that a DVD will be £12 and the blu-ray version £17 (cloverfield @ play for example)

Problem is once you go to blu-ray SD just doesn't have a chance. For me there is no longer any point in buying SD disks even if I have to wait for the blu-ray version at a decent price.

If you don't have hd be it via blu-ray or Sky (and now freesat) it is very easy to dismiss hd as not worth it.

[Rob D]

I also agree that the wrong format won the hi def DVD battle, however I think video on demand won't be far away and this will have a massive impact on Bluray sales and the format itself.

[tbeachly]

I was thinking about video on demand but with certain ISP's restricting bandwidth this may turn out to be a non starter.

[ps3mad]

the avarage joe has no idea what blu-ray is

so i doubt i will ever match DVD

if you speak to the avarage joe(currys customer)they think because they have just bought a new HD lcd/plasma(only bought because its slim)they are watching tv in HD.

[Badger0-0]

Originally Posted by Rob D

I also agree that the wrong format won the hi def DVD battle, however I think video on demand won't be far away and this will have a massive impact on Bluray sales and the format itself.

I said the same, ages ago and got slated for it.

The big argument is that our internet connections are too slow.

My point is that they are, ATM, but this is where the investment is going to go, big time.

VM aren't looking at 50Mb as a favour to us, IMO.

I actually hate "on demand", but it makes total sense, in that it costs nothing to provide, bandwidth apart.

They can ram an HD film at £4.50 up their proverbial, IMO, I'd rather pay the extra for the original.
But make it a quid and it becomes more competitive

[Jules]

Problem is once you go to blu-ray SD just doesn't have a chance. For me there is no longer any point in buying SD disks even if I have to wait for the blu-ray version at a decent price.

I used to think this way until I changed my 42" plasma screen from a Panasonic to a Pioneer 4280.

Alot of screens don't do SD justice and this distorts peoples perception of the performance gap.

Don't get me wrong, I've invested heavily in top end home entertainment equipment so I want Blu-ray to gain momentum quickly.
At the moment though, the price differential for Joe Bloggs is madness for the incremental performance improvement.

However, I think prices will come down. It will take 1 brave manufucturer to start churning out full specced Blu-ray players in a big Supermarket chain for under £150 (and we're not too far off already with Samsung players available now for around £199) , then as the PS3 becomes a comparitively expensive option the market will open up and prices will nose dive.

I can see Blu-ray players being sold at Asda for £79.99 inside 3 years. They won't go as cheap as DVD players (under £15 for a full specced player these days is just silly) but at around £80 people will be prepared to replace broken DVD players with Blu-Ray.

Disc prices will come down too, the first DVD I ever bought cost £28 back in 1998. The likes of HMV and Zavvi are just (understandably) at the moment selling to a limited market who are not as price sensitive as Joe Bloggs.

As Joe Bloggs buys Blu-ray machines, HMV and Zavvi will want to sell them discs, so disc prices will fall eventually.

... I hope!

[domtheone]

Originally Posted by ps3mad

the avarage joe has no idea what blu-ray is

so i doubt i will ever match DVD

if you speak to the avarage joe(currys customer)they think because they have just bought a new HD lcd/plasma(only bought because its slim)they are watching tv in HD.

Yep. HD tv = watching in HD

HD DVD has (well had) the better chance if only because of the name which was far more likely to get Joe Publics attention given the right support/marketing.

[Dr Force]

Along time to wait before VOD via your cable at home IMHO.

BT 3pair does not do a good job as far as large bandwith is concerned.We require optical cable to get downloads at anything like acceptable time scales to the average home.

Our whole infrastructure is miles behind places like china in this regard.

I think we'll see BR gradually reach out to the av punter but i feel this is around 3 years time when players and discs are far cheaper.

Its not a good time for BR at the moment.yes the format war has been won but with a world wide tightening of the belts, rising oils costs (and thus higher shipping costs) its not great marketing to sell a disc £10 more than its SD counterpart.

I think its going to remain niche until 2011/2012 and I am holding off for aslong as possible, enjoying my HD DVD's until i can buy the discs at reasonable prices.

[domtheone]

Originally Posted by Dr Force

I am holding off for aslong as possible, enjoying my HD DVD's until i can buy the discs at reasonable prices.

So that's you, me and probably a few hundred more on AVF for starters then

[Badger0-0]

Originally Posted by Dr Force

Along time to wait before VOD via your cable at home IMHO.

BT 3pair does not do a good job as far as large bandwith is concerned.We require optical cable to get downloads at anything like acceptable time scales to the average home.

Our whole infrastructure is miles behind places like china in this regard.

I think we'll see BR gradually reach out to the av punter but i feel this is around 3 years time when players and discs are far cheaper.

Its not a good time for BR at the moment.yes the format war has been won but with a world wide tightening of the belts, rising oils costs (and thus higher shipping costs) its not great marketing to sell a disc £10 more than its SD counterpart.

I think its going to remain niche until 2011/2012 and I am holding off for aslong as possible, enjoying my HD DVD's until i can buy the discs at reasonable prices.

What a poor indictment of our supposedly top technology

An English bloke invented the internet and we miss out again

I'm not so sure sure about China's infrastructure, but given the rate they are building, I can't dispute what you're saying.

I do know that what we regard as rubbish countries, () are miles ahead of us.

Korea is one.

That's a bloody total embarassment, IMO

But the government (of whatever colour) doesn't seem to give a toss

[stephentw]

To me Blu Ray lacks quality films to start with. The studios just don't seem to have fully caught on and only a handful of films come out on it from the same studios over and over and hardly any of my back catalogue of dvd's are available yet/if ever. Since I bought one a few months ago I've struggled to find a film I want to buy let alone at a price I'm willing to pay! Which is a shame really!

[kevin_irl]

I think its got to do with price. To take advantage of bluray you really need a 40"+ 1080p tv and an amp that can decode the lossless sound formats and a good set of 5.1/7.1 speakers. The average Joe will stick to dvd until these come down in price. We will probably be watching 3D by then lol

[Pecker]

My guess is that the studios and CEMs are actually quite happy with BD. DVD sales are going down slowly, as are DVD player and disc prices.

So they've introduced Blu-ray Disc, and now they're selling a proportion of players and discs at higher prices. Sony is releasing catalogue titles on BD which are selling for c.£13 or £14, so that gives you a clue as to how much discs cost to manufacture and sell. Royalties to the film-makers will be very similar if not identical whether the sale is SD or HD.

So this means the other studios, releasing (and selling) catalogue BDs for £18 are doing very nicely indeed, thank you. I would imagine the CEMs are in a similar boat.

So in the short term BD will survive, and grow slowly. In a recent article in HMM they said that 25% market penetration is seen as a 'tipping point'. When 1 in 4 of us have BD everyone will know about it, and by that point the player and disc prices will have crept down.

So, in maybe 3 years' time we'll have sub-£100 players, discs at maybe only £1 or £2 more than the SD version, and everyone knowing that your old DVDs will play on your new BD player.

Buying a supermarket special DVD player from Tesco you might notice that the box also says 'Blu-ray Disc' on the front, in much the same way the term 'HDMI' has crept onto the boxes over the past few years.

Well, that's how I think it'll go. If BD is making enough to survive now, and SD DVD isn't shrinking too quickly, I think both the studios & CEMs will behappy for BD to continue growing slowly, and making a lot more from each sale than from SD DVD discs and players. When the time comes to go mass market I think you'll find more reasonable prices, but they'll fight tooth and nail not to let things get as silly as they are now £30 for a player and £5 for a disc).

Steve W

[Pincho Paxton]

The blue tap is running cold water. There is no pressure behind the forcet, and when you finally do get some water out of it, it is full of grain.

A good sales team could make the water Red Hot. I would turn all Blu Ray products into limited Tin/Box Set Editions, and put photo's, and extras in there like Forbidden Planet Tin. And add all the other Menu Options that I have talked about (Which cost nothing anyway).

[Bald Monkey]

Originally Posted by Pincho Paxton

The blue tap is running cold water. There is no pressure behind the forcet, and when you finally do get some water out of it, it is full of grain.

A good sales team could make the water Red Hot. I would turn all Blu Ray products into limited Tin/Box Set Editions, and put photo's, and extras in there like Forbidden Planet Tin. And add all the other Menu Options that I have talked about (Which cost nothing anyway).

Sounds like you'd make a great plumber..

[Hawklord]

Until software becomes more affordable I'll continue to buy HD-DVD's at bargain prices. The only Blu-ray titles I have picked up so far are Kung Fu Hustle and close encounters. I may add must have titles when they arrive but for general viewing DVD will suffice until Blu-ray can be purchased at DVD prices (£10). I feel I'll be waiting quite some time before prices are at this level but until the industry wakes up and realises the average Joe can't justify £17+ for a film Blu-ray will always be second to dvd.
Video on demand may take off but I for one will always like a hard copy in disc format for conveinience and to be visable in my collection.

[Dr Force]

Originally Posted by Badger0-0

What a poor indictment of our supposedly top technology

An English bloke invented the internet and we miss out again

I'm not so sure sure about China's infrastructure, but given the rate they are building, I can't dispute what you're saying.

I do know that what we regard as rubbish countries, () are miles ahead of us.

Korea is one.

That's a bloody total embarassment, IMO

But the government (of whatever colour) doesn't seem to give a toss

Dont get me started on politics Steve

We are way behind countries with regards to technological innovation and thus we pay a higher price for it.I think BR is just another example of the uk having very little bargaining power now cus we produce very little.

As I,ve said, personally, its a case of waiting for reasonable prices.I have purchased so many cheap HD DVD's in the last month and two more players (HD E1 & 360 add on) for £70.I have got alot of HD material to watch with around 70 discs now in my collection thus Im in no rush to help make BR more popular.

[stevos]

Personally i can never see it reaching main stream. There was an interesting comparision in whathifi (i know they are a bit odd in their reviews) that had blind testing of readers (AV fans don't forget) who couldn't really see a lot of difference (the difference between dvd and vhs was so stunning that anyone could see it, no more auto-tracking etc). Can't see joe public buying into it.

I think what we will see if the move into cheap dvd/bluray combo players with bluray being considered more a premium option. A bit like sacd/dvd-a has become, but i think it will be quiet a bit bigger than them.

The only way it will ever take off is if they undercut dvd's on price, but i can't see that ever happening.

Really can't see the mainstream punter replacing their dvd player with one, and that's the only way it will take off.

[LanceR]

Originally Posted by stevos

Personally i can never see it reaching main stream. There was an interesting comparision in whathifi (i know they are a bit odd in their reviews) that had blind testing of readers (AV fans don't forget) who couldn't really see a lot of difference (the difference between dvd and vhs was so stunning that anyone could see it, no more auto-tracking etc). Can't see joe public buying into it.

I think what we will see if the move into cheap dvd/bluray combo players with bluray being considered more a premium option. A bit like sacd/dvd-a has become, but i think it will be quiet a bit bigger than them.

The only way it will ever take off is if they undercut dvd's on price, but i can't see that ever happening.

Really can't see the mainstream punter replacing their dvd player with one, and that's the only way it will take off.

Erm what's DVD/Blu ray combo player? Doesn't Blu ray play DVD out of the box!?

As for download's as someone has quite rightly stated the infrastructure in this country cannot handle it at the moment and won't until BT get off there collective arse!

As for the wrong format winning the war, why? don't give me flannel about cheap media or cheap players we all know why that was like that it was pushed artificially low to try and get market penetration. Region coding is an issue on blu ray but there only seems to be one studio that is standing by it steadfastly, FOX, Disney do for non catalogue releases and New Line but now they have been properley absorbed into Warner that practice will die.

Blu ray will succeed in my opinion it may not get to the dizzy heights of DVD but I'm not sure any physical media would now.

Prices will come down this is still a fledgling format and one that seems to be gathering a bit of momentum.

[LanceR]

Originally Posted by Hawklord

Until software becomes more affordable I'll continue to buy HD-DVD's at bargain prices. The only Blu-ray titles I have picked up so far are Kung Fu Hustle and close encounters. I may add must have titles when they arrive but for general viewing DVD will suffice until Blu-ray can be purchased at DVD prices (£10). I feel I'll be waiting quite some time before prices are at this level but until the industry wakes up and realises the average Joe can't justify £17+ for a film Blu-ray will always be second to dvd.
Video on demand may take off but I for one will always like a hard copy in disc format for conveinience and to be visable in my collection.

And I agree I want the disc in my hand rather than downloaded media.

[sleepyone]

Just an observation but my local asda has scrapped their blu-ray section.

You can get a blu-ray of a new release like Jumper, i asked the sales desk person and they said they were only getting a few Blu copies of the film on release week, after they have sold out they won't get any more in.

All the older blu films they had on the shelves went back to warehouse and the back catalogue PS3 games section is now in their place.

Also I was in Zavvi the other week and noticed they were still trying to sell The Departed for £30

[Sonic67]

Yes. It will grow as it's built into a popular console and the disks are sold in supermarkets which SACD etc never was. Bigger than DVD I don't think so as I think some future technology might wipe out both one day but certainly blu-ray will get a lot bigger.

[sco101]

Currys are giving away free Blue Ray players with some of thier tv's, if ts going to become popular shops need to lower the price of the films.

[stevos]

I kind of meant the reverse of what we have now. I can see dvd players that can play bluray rather than the reverse. A bit like we currently have dvd players can can also play divx.

I suspect people will upgrade/replace their existing dvd players and find out that the new one they brought for £50 will also play bluray.

[LanceR]

Originally Posted by sco101

Currys are giving away free Blue Ray players with some of thier tv's, if ts going to become popular shops need to lower the price of the films.

Yes absolutely but as I say this format is still very young, as more and more replcation houses come online, as Blu ray becomes cheaper to manufacture then so will the cost of media and hardware begin to fall.

DVD was not cheap 2 years into it's life and yo can argue Blu ray has been around a little over a year. It will get there.