[spiderman78]

Just seen this on Engadget:

The Financial Times is reporting that Paramount is preparing to use a get out clause in its HD DVD exclusivity deal, and go back to Blu-ray, about 4 months after ending its dual-format release schedule. The move would be a result of Warner's switch to Blu-ray, using a "get out" clause in Paramount's promotional agreement with the HD DVD camp. No details on what it might take to rip up the contract and make Michael Bay very, very happy, but if the rumor proves true this could make the slow death he predicted for HD DVD a very, very fast one.

By the way I am a HD DVD owner and this is not a dig at any camp just thought people would be interested in this news.


Here's a link to Financial Times article http://www.ft.com/cms/s/dc409afa-bd7...0779fd2ac.html

UPDATE 08:27 - Please see Blad Monkey's post below

[Bald Monkey]

This speculative article has already been denied by Paramount, they insist there is no truth to it and the 'unnamed sources' are wrong they are sticking with HD-DVD..

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...bU&refer=japan

``Paramount's current plan is to continue to support the HD DVD format,'' Brenda Ciccone, a spokeswoman for Paramount, said in an e-mail today.


Keisuke Ohmori, a spokesman for Tokyo-based Toshiba, said the report is speculative.

[stevos]

What an absolute mess this format war is becoming. Before christmas when Paramount signed the deal people were saying its the end of bluray and now the reverse.

Personally i would prefer hd-dvd to succeed since its not region locked (but i have both so don't overly care either way), but at this moment in time my money is roundly on neither format winning.

What a mess.

A message to the studios, if you want a hd optical format to succeed, how about lowering the prices of the discs.

[Bald Monkey]

Originally Posted by stevos

What an absolute mess this format war is becoming. .

I agree, and it's a shame as before Xmas these rumours from both sides had died down, as AV and Movie fans we were mainly going dual and discussing which releases offered us the best choice, warning others to avoid substandard releases, recommending the best places to get good prices and generally all enjoying HD of both flavours whilst pushing for better.

Now it seems we are back to infighting and bickering, with the coporations pulling the strings, it no longer seems to matter what films are avaliable, how good the HD versions are etc, just what colour the cases are and who is/was right!

[micks_address]

i dont think people were saying Blue Ray was in trouble when Paramount signed the deal with HD DVD.. i think the mainstream opinion was that it would help HD DVD keep going in the format war..

i would bet that Paramount are at least thinking over the situation and looking at possibly releasing on Blue Ray again.. ok they have said they arent going to abandon HD DVD but they havent said they arent going releasing on Blue Ray... at least not yet..



{QUOTE=stevos;6166431]What an absolute mess this format war is becoming. Before christmas when Paramount signed the deal people were saying its the end of bluray and now the reverse.

Personally i would prefer hd-dvd to succeed since its not region locked (but i have both so don't overly care either way), but at this moment in time my money is roundly on neither format winning.

What a mess.

A message to the studios, if you want a hd optical format to succeed, how about lowering the prices of the discs.[/QUOTE]

[pixelpixel]

Its all smoke and mirrors........

Due to the blue/red stuff, I have decided that I won't be going to use any as it seems overnight things change and people jump ship. I will continue to use my 576i feed to watch dvd's and if needed I can upscale via my pc. Well thats what I have been doing for over 2 years why should I change now.

So say NO to HD as a media format.

[micks_address]

the next few months should see it settle down.. i think there's a definite improvement with HD versus upscaled DVD.. sometimes its not that remarkable but there's no denying it when you see it..

Originally Posted by pixelpixel

Its all smoke and mirrors........

Due to the blue/red stuff, I have decided that I won't be going to use any as it seems overnight things change and people jump ship. I will continue to use my 576i feed to watch dvd's and if needed I can upscale via my pc. Well thats what I have been doing for over 2 years why should I change now.

So say NO to HD as a media format.

[sdb123]

I'm seriously considering chucking in the proverbial HD towel at the moment.

[Daarkest]

Lets not forget that Paramount are only doing HD-DVD exclusively due to a wad of cash being thrown at them from Microsoft.
Even if they thought they were backing a looser, if someone pays you to do so you still would (well i would).
The format war i do see as coming to an end, BD now has enough of the big studios exclusively to convince the consumer that its the format of choice.

[irascian]

Originally Posted by Bald Monkey

This speculative article has already been denied by Paramount, they insist there is no truth to it and the 'unnamed sources' are wrong they are sticking with HD-DVD..

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...bU&refer=japan

Isn't that EXACTLY what Warner Brothers said just before Christmas when one of their staff leaked the fact they were going to drop HD-DVD.

(and no, I'm not a Blu-Ray fan boy - I have over 200 HD-DVDs, but this whole speculation/denial thing has got to the stage where you can't believe anything anyone says)

[sdb123]

Originally Posted by andy_dandy

Lets not forget that Paramount are only doing HD-DVD exclusively due to a wad of cash being thrown at them from Microsoft.

But the same argument could be levelled against Warner and Sony.

[Daarkest]

Originally Posted by sdb123

But the same argument could be levelled against Warner and Sony.

Dont think so, Sony have no choice, it's their format after all.
The difference with Paramount is that they were releasing on both formats and then were tied into HD-DVD by Microsofts 'wad'.
Warner was slightly different as they were exclusive anyway.

[Noggin1980]

Originally Posted by irascian

Isn't that EXACTLY what Warner Brothers said just before Christmas when one of their staff leaked the fact they were going to drop HD-DVD.

(and no, I'm not a Blu-Ray fan boy - I have over 200 HD-DVDs, but this whole speculation/denial thing has got to the stage where you can't believe anything anyone says)

It's a safe bet that the old rumors about warner were false, It's clear this has been done at the very highest level at warner and that it has been very fluid, HD-DVD were clearly not expecting to lose Warner and so obviously felt their negotiations with them were going well. I get the impression this was decided very late in the day, no doubt with both sides offering warner fantastic incentives.

I think there would be alot of anger at paramount if they were to switch, their contract to go HD DVD exclusive was something that made many people buy a HD DVD player to go back on what they said 6 months later would cause alot of people to feel they have lost alot of money because of paramount.

Warner did handle it badly though, they should have kept quiet on the run up to christmas, if they were planning (and they clearly were) to make a choice, reafirming there support for both formats, arrangeing to be a speaker at the HD DVD CES event made people confident in buying many HD DVD disks from them for christmas like the harry potter series (that now you won't be able to buy the final 2 movies on HD DVD), I'm not too upset I'll buy them on blu-ray but I can certainly see why many people are upset and feel they have been mislead

[Starburst]

It's a given that Blu-ray owners will be buying Paramount releases again in 2009 and well Para took the "incentive" they should honour the contract after all there is still a very definite market for HD DVD and then in a year they have the far more mature BD market to milk.

Of course I have no idea exactly what profit Para are making out of their HD DVD catalogue and if they were honest about supporting the format more likely to get mass market adoption via a price point and while that is still true the counter argument of studio support/number of titles is far more of a factor than it was last year.
Warner really have tipped the scales wildly in favour of Blu-ray and Paramount are a business that would have no issues with grinding former customers under their heel, that's just the way it is

[Noggin1980]

Originally Posted by andy_dandy

Dont think so, Sony have no choice, it's their format after all.
The difference with Paramount is that they were releasing on both formats and then were tied into HD-DVD by Microsofts 'wad'.
Warner was slightly different as they were exclusive anyway.

Warner were neutral untill a few days ago and are now blu-ray exclusive, despite the fact they deny it's pretty much a guarentee they took huge incentives to go blu-ray exclusive, they would have been stupid not too. I don't think anyone can on the HD DVD side can be angry about that though as I'm positive that similar incentives were offered from them too.

[Pecker]

There are 6 major studios - Sony, Disney, Fox, Warner, Paramount & Universal.

There are lots of 'little majors' like Lionsgate & Weinstein, and others that are tied up to those (New Line to Warner, Dreamworks to Paramount), but those 6 are the big ones.

Pre-Paramount going HD DVD exclusive there was one HD DVD exclusive, and 3 Blu-Ray. There are now 2 HD DVD exclusive and 4 Blu-ray. That's one extra each.

Pre-Paramount going HD DVD exclusive there were 5 releasing on Blu-ray and 3 on HD DVD. There are now 4 on Blu-ray and 2 on HD DVD. That's one less each.

Looked at like that, it's hardly earth shattering.

The biggest worry right now for HD DVD is confidence. If someone at Universal, Paramount or even Toshiba panics, then it might be all over.

But if everyone sits it out for a month or two, when the dust settles we'll still be in a situation not too disimilar to what we were 6 months ago. You'll not be able to buy BDs from any more studios than you could then, indeed there's one less, and you'll only be able to buy HD DVDs from one less studio than you could then.

Anyone serious about films in high def will still have to be dual-format; you can't just ignore the films of Paramount & Universal.

Steve W

[BenchyUK]

I wouldn't be surprised if Paramount are trying to get out of their contract.

The HD-DVD camp got Paramount on the cheap at $150 million compared to the $500 million of the BDA to Warner, so perhaps Paramounts contract allows wiggle room to back out?

[featherhall]

Originally Posted by Pecker

................................

Anyone serious about films in high def will still have to be dual-format; you can't just ignore the films of Paramount & Universal.

Steve W

steve, probably one of the best posts I have read in a long time

Looking at it now that the dust has kind of settled, I can live with buying a blueray player, however ..... what has really annoyed me is that I have 40 HDDVD's (and I dont want to sell them), and I want to have confidence to keep buying. If I am being honest I would rather have Universal and Paramount titles than Fox and Disney (even Warner), however if I am to buy a new title I want some sort of statement that the format will continue. At the moment I (and others) feel like we are in no mans land.

On another note, and I would like to be corrected on this if I am wrong, is it not a case that Warner haven't signed any exclusivity deal, and in theory could change its mind at any given time ? I haven't read that they are tied into anything, only that they have decided to go Blueray within their own camp. This is unlike the HDDVD exclusive studios (albeit there is a time cut off date).

I would prefer to keep backing the HDDVD format (as I have a back catalogue, and love the region free and extras), however before I hand over some hard earned for a blueray player, I dont want to be in a position in 3 months where this is all reversed.

In summary, what a mess. complete and utter mess (especially when you look at the fact that some titles can still be released in other regions in the world by other distributors).

[featherhall]

Originally Posted by lee_c00per

I wouldn't be surprised if Paramount are trying to get out of their contract.

The HD-DVD camp got Paramount on the cheap at $150 million compared to the $500 million of the BDA to Warner, so perhaps Paramounts contract allows wiggle room to back out?

Would be rather a strange one though wouldn't it ? I mean, it's not like Microsoft dont cross the t's and dot the i's.
I would imagine that for this to happen, Paramount would have to pay back a HUGE amount of compensation, and for that to happen then Toshiba and Microsoft would indeed be confirming the death of the format.

[Bald Monkey]

Originally Posted by featherhall

steve, probably one of the best posts I have read in a long time

Looking at it now that the dust has kind of settled, I can live with buying a blueray player, however ..... what has really annoyed me is that I have 40 HDDVD's (and I dont want to sell them), and I want to have confidence to keep buying. If I am being honest I would rather have Universal and Paramount titles than Fox and Disney (even Warner), however if I am to buy a new title I want some sort of statement that the format will continue. At the moment I (and others) feel like we are in no mans land.

On another note, and I would like to be corrected on this if I am wrong, is it not a case that Warner haven't signed any exclusivity deal, and in theory could change its mind at any given time ? I haven't read that they are tied into anything, only that they have decided to go Blueray within their own camp. This is unlike the HDDVD exclusive studios (albeit there is a time cut off date).

I would prefer to keep backing the HDDVD format (as I have a back catalogue, and love the region free and extras), however before I hand over some hard earned for a blueray player, I dont want to be in a position in 3 months where this is all reversed.

In summary, what a mess. complete and utter mess (especially when you look at the fact that some titles can still be released in other regions in the world by other distributors).

Agree with you both, still plenty of reasons to have a HD-DVD player, but feel a bit in limbo and would struggle to recommend a player of either type to a friend at the moment.

I believe you are right that warner can go either way at any time, it's up to them. But what an announcement to make and then go back on However if people feel it's possible for Paramount , you never know

Seems we've gone full circle in the last year, but now have better and cheaper players and more titles avaliable.

BTW where is the BR long list of future releases from CES ???

[andythescientis]

For HDM i think it would be good for both Paramount and Uni to follow warners this week.

BUT.. I also think the consumer should be compensated. Any HD media should be freely exchangeable, and toshiba should be allowed to make a profile 2.0 player and offer part exchanges with HD-DVD machines.

Both sides (CEs and Studios) have made a complete total and utter balls up of this whole affair. People in general are already IMO jaded with media purchasing, realising finally that there is little point in buying 95% of discs as you only ever watch them once or twice. With all the **** flinging and cash being thrown around it only goes to highlight how much they are milking us, they bleat on about piracy, meanwhile they can spend half a billion in order to secure their revenue stream going forward. It was **** or bust for sony on friday and fair play to them they pulled out all the stops. But at the end of the day it's the consumer that pays, time after time for these mistakes.

[BenchyUK]

UPDATE: We have received word from Paramount/DreamWorks that although they continue to support HD DVD, they will not be making any new high-def title announcements at CES 2008.

No new titles? Perhpas they are trying to switch sides first

http://hddvd.highdefdigest.com/news/show/DreamWorks/Paramount/CES_2008/Paramount/DreamWorks:__Still_Supporting_HD_DVD_[UPDATED]/1345

[Sonic67]

Originally Posted by andy_dandy

Lets not forget that Paramount are only doing HD-DVD exclusively due to a wad of cash being thrown at them from Microsoft.

Are you Michael Bay? It was from the HD DVD as a whole not Microsoft who is an individual member.

[Fen Star]

Originally Posted by Noggin1980

Warner were neutral untill a few days ago and are now blu-ray exclusive, despite the fact they deny it's pretty much a guarentee they took huge incentives to go blu-ray exclusive, they would have been stupid not too. I don't think anyone can on the HD DVD side can be angry about that though as I'm positive that similar incentives were offered from them too.

I think you will find the huge incentive was that Blu-ray was outselling HDDVD 3-1 on there titles....

[Sonic67]

Originally Posted by Starburst

It's a given that Blu-ray owners will be buying Paramount releases again in 2009

It isn't a 'given'. It's true that the contract will end in Feb 2009. That doesn't mean that at the end of that contract that there won't then be another one. If Microsoft and Toshiba etc wanted to keep going with HD DVD they could throw lots and lots of money at Paramount and Universal and keep the format going. If they sell off enough HD DVD players off cheap they might also tempt some blu-ray studios into going neutral again.

I would imagine some accountants somewhere are weighing up all the options and trying to come up with what's the best strategy. On paper it might be throwing in the towel but then I'm not looking at a computer full of finances and balance sheets.

[Sonic67]

Originally Posted by Fen Star

I think you will find the huge incentive was that Blu-ray was outselling HDDVD 3-1 on there titles....

or that they thought Fox was going neutral.

[MI55ION]

A lot of speculation going on in here, from the FT report all the way down to people's assumptions that studios have made their decisions based on current HDM sales, I mean if that was the case, why didn't Paramount turn Blu? I think we need to look beyond petty discs sales and at the bigger picture and reasons why a studio or group of studios may switch allegiance.

[kevin_irl]

I hope Paramount follow Warner. Put an end to this war once and for all

[micks_address]

i dont think you can say things are pretty much the same as they were 6 months ago, Warner were by far the most agressive studio in terms of releasing on High definition.

you cant compare the number of studios.. its just not the same.. i mean sony, disney, fox, warner..

its not the number of studio's its the content they have.. paramount & universal just cant compete with that on their own..

for HD to really succeed as a disk format i think the best thing now would be for all the studio's to get behind Blue Ray and start pushing it big time.. 2008 could be the year HD takes off..

Paramount and Universal must be evaluating the situation - otherwise why not come out with release schedules for 2008. Surely they had some announcements ready for CES that they could release?

Originally Posted by Pecker

There are 6 major studios - Sony, Disney, Fox, Warner, Paramount & Universal.

There are lots of 'little majors' like Lionsgate & Weinstein, and others that are tied up to those (New Line to Warner, Dreamworks to Paramount), but those 6 are the big ones.

Pre-Paramount going HD DVD exclusive there was one HD DVD exclusive, and 3 Blu-Ray. There are now 2 HD DVD exclusive and 4 Blu-ray. That's one extra each.

Pre-Paramount going HD DVD exclusive there were 5 releasing on Blu-ray and 3 on HD DVD. There are now 4 on Blu-ray and 2 on HD DVD. That's one less each.

Looked at like that, it's hardly earth shattering.

The biggest worry right now for HD DVD is confidence. If someone at Universal, Paramount or even Toshiba panics, then it might be all over.

But if everyone sits it out for a month or two, when the dust settles we'll still be in a situation not too disimilar to what we were 6 months ago. You'll not be able to buy BDs from any more studios than you could then, indeed there's one less, and you'll only be able to buy HD DVDs from one less studio than you could then.

Anyone serious about films in high def will still have to be dual-format; you can't just ignore the films of Paramount & Universal.

Steve W

[MI55ION]

Originally Posted by kevin_irl

I hope Paramount follow Warner. Put an end to this war once and for all

How would that benefit you?