Fox/MGM Give Us BD25/MPEG2 Releases

Rasczak · 22-09-2007, 3:09 PM

Fox/MGM have released details of their October releases. Fox have always had quite high standards with their releases so we mustn't get too concerned about this news as of yet - but it seems several of their titles are going to be authored in MPEG2 and released on BD25 discs:

- Edward Scissorhands
- Robocop (Unrated Cut)
- The Hills Have Eyes 2 (Unrated)

Unfortunately I am not allowed to post the link but you'll find the news on several sites now. Nobody is sure of the cause for this reversion though - some have mooted it is merely to streamline releases following the Paramount defection.

MPEG2/BD25 were of course the source of BluRay's 'quality' issues early on in the formats life. Time will tell if we see the same here - meanwhile I have cancelled my order for The Hills Have Eyes 2 until we see some good reviews.

Jeff · 22-09-2007, 3:27 PM

These were probably done ages ago and projected sales couldn't justify any rework.

Rasczak · 22-09-2007, 3:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff

These were probably done ages ago and projected sales couldn't justify any rework.

Indeed - lets hope this is just clearing out old stock. Surely we have moved beyond the MPEG2/BD25 combo?

Sonic67 · 22-09-2007, 3:56 PM

Wasn't Robocop pulled before for being of bad quality? Surely this is a disk that should be a special edition.

zz101 · 22-09-2007, 4:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rasczak

MPEG2/BD25 were of course the source of BluRay's 'quality' issues early on in the formats life. Time will tell if we see the same here - meanwhile I have cancelled my order for The Hills Have Eyes 2 until we see some good reviews.

In that case Fox have done you a favour THHE2 sux.

WRT to Robocop surely they wouldnt release the old version that go slated first time round?

Rasczak · 22-09-2007, 4:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zz101

WRT to Robocop surely they wouldnt release the old version that go slated first time round?

I can't quite remember what happened here. I know that Sony went to release the title, getting as far as pre-release review copies going out and it got naff reviews. But, for ownership reasons, it never went on sale. It's here where my memory goes fuzzy - did Fox/MGM almost release another version? I'm sure I remember people talking about how Robocop was much improved over the Sony version.

I can't say it's a title I want or am interested in though but I suspect a few people are?

zz101 · 22-09-2007, 4:59 PM

Where is this news anyway?

I thought Robocop was as follows?

Video
Video codec: MPEG-4 AVC
Video resolution: 1080p
Aspect ratio: 1.85:1

Audio
English: DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1
French: Dolby Digital 5.1
Spanish: Dolby Digital 5.1

Subtitles
English SDH, English, French, Spanish, Chinese, Korean

Disc
25GB Blu-ray Disc

zz101 · 22-09-2007, 5:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rasczak

I can't quite remember what happened here. I know that Sony went to release the title, getting as far as pre-release review copies going out and it got naff reviews. But, for ownership reasons, it never went on sale. It's here where my memory goes fuzzy - did Fox/MGM almost release another version? I'm sure I remember people talking about how Robocop was much improved over the Sony version.

I can't say it's a title I want or am interested in though but I suspect a few people are?

No - I think only those review copies exist.

zz101 · 22-09-2007, 5:07 PM

Found it...

May be the are just going to re-use the old copy.

This sound v good though...

The Day After Tomorrow - Authored in BD-Java and AVC (MPEG 4 compression). Presented on a 50GB dual-layer disc with English 5.1 DTS HD Lossless Master Audio plus French and Spanish 5.1 Dolby Digital Sound. Subtitles: English, Spanish, French, Chinese and Korean.

Blu-ray Exclusive Extras include:
Global Warming Trivia Track
Search Content
Personal Scene Selections
Global Warming Interactive (Java Game)
D-Box
Additional Bonus Features (Standard Definition):
Commentary by Director/Co-Writer Roland Emmerich and Producer Mark Gordon
Commentary by Co-Writer Jeffrey Nachmanoff, Ueli Steiger, Editor David Brenner and Production Designer Barry Chusid
10 Deleted scenes with optional commentary by Director/Co-Writer Roland Emmerich and Producer Mark Gordon

BadAss · 22-09-2007, 5:12 PM

I might get Day after Tomorrow, haven't seen it yet, might be good in HD.

I quite like disaster movies, they should make one on the format war.

brian s · 22-09-2007, 5:55 PM

MPEG 2 and single layered discs are two of the things that made me go HD DVD. I borrowed a BD player and went for discs that I thought were dual layer. There were a few problems with the machine but I have to say some of the discs were first rate and better than I've seen on HD DVD. When I can find a reliable player I will go BD subject to quality discs.

Cheers
Bri

Rasczak · 22-09-2007, 6:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brian s

MPEG 2 and single layered discs are two of the things that made me go HD DVD.

Some of the first BluRay discs were truely terrible - if it wasn't for the stronger launch of HD DVD in this respect then I doubt The Fifth Element would have been re-issued. these days though both formats are virtually identical in that they both can achiieve the highest of standards and similarly can both be very average. The days of poor encodes though (thankfully) seems to be gone...although this announcement from Fox has doubtless got many fans concerned.

**Greg** · 23-09-2007, 2:38 PM

I've deleted the offending posts and reopened the thread as it seems to be an important topic.

Next person to post a format war inflaming post gets a week ban.

That goes for you lot on both sides.

Geoff_D · 23-09-2007, 9:04 PM

MPEG2/BD25 is not automatically a bad thing, as long as the title is transferred with due diligence. Although it would appear that the issues of replicating BD50s is forcing Fox's hand (it's why the re-done Master And Commander won't reappear until next year, because the slates for replication are apparently already full for the rest of the year).

I'm more ****** off at Fox for releasing Robocop with zero extras.

Rasczak · 24-09-2007, 5:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geoff_D

MPEG2/BD25 is not automatically a bad thing

True - there were a few very satisfactory MPEG2/BD25 releases such as Stealth. However the vast majority were below par and I think we all welcomed the move to BD50.

brian s · 24-09-2007, 7:15 AM

MPEG2 should be shown the back door. If the material concerned was very short, say under an hour then a single disc might do but any feature length content should be BD50. HD DVD are talking up their triple layer disc. Anyone know if the BD camp are considering the same? A BD75 should be something to behold.

All the best
Bri

Pecker · 24-09-2007, 8:41 AM

It's still more of a problem for me that the price is $40.

When buying new discs, I tend to go to Amazon Marketplace (normally Caiman). I usually find the prices are in 2 'bands' - one for new stuff, another fgor catalogue stuff.

Example (it's the first one that comes into my head - it's 2 HD DVD releases, but applies to BD non-Fox releases, too) - we had a double release of 'Hot Fuzz' (new) and 'Shaune of the Dead' (catalogue).

'Shaun...' is £11.40 - 'Hot Fuzz' is £16.28.

If I pop to Amazon USA I see that the msrp of the catalogue title is $30 and the new title is $40.

This seems to be standard policy for most studios - 'A Few Good Men' on BD is msrp $30.

This is not a HD DVD v Blu-ray Disc issue. It's as Fox v all other studios issue.

Why do Fox charge so much extra for catalogue titles? I could also put up with it if they were releasing premium product, jam packed with extras.

But bare bones BD25s?

Steve W

BadAss · 24-09-2007, 8:58 AM

Fox could turn around and say, look we're not going to make any money off back catalog titles, they don't sell well and they need alot of work cleaning the master and AVC/VC-1 takes too long to encode. So tuff luck.

I'd rather pay the extra £5-10 for a remastered version of ID4 on a BD50, with extras in AVC any day.

Adam_uk · 24-09-2007, 9:18 AM

THe extras are all in AVC- in HD? THey are not simply in SD ported over from the DVD?

Pecker · 24-09-2007, 9:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadAss

Fox could turn around and say, look we're not going to make any money off back catalog titles, they don't sell well and they need alot of work cleaning the master and AVC/VC-1 takes too long to encode. So tuff luck.

I'd rather pay the extra £5-10 for a remastered version of ID4 on a BD50, with extras in AVC any day.

See:

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/fewgoodmen.html

What's this.

Extras? CHECK!

Great PQ/SQ? CHECK!

An extra $5 or $10? Erm...NO!

You be happy paying extra if you want.

I'd rather pay less.

Releases like this Blu-ray Disc of 'A Few Good Men' show we shouldn't be paying extra for excellent PQ/SQ, even if there are also a hatful of extras.

In short, why can Sony offer us great looking/sounding catalogue titles, with extras for $30, when Fox feel it's necessary to offer us no extras (and who knows what PQ/SQ) for $10 extra?

Steve W

BadAss · 24-09-2007, 10:16 AM

A Few Good Men has a PCM sound track, Fox use DTS-MA on all there titles. This comes at an additional cost to Fox which is passed on to you the consumer.

HDM is not a sustainable buisness at the moment and some studio's are willing to pay out of their own pocket for you to own theses movies.

If a Studio spends $1 million per title to get it from the Master to shop shelves and only makes back $10 per sale then they need to sell a 100,000 copies to break even. How many titles do you know that have sold more than 100,000? Not many...

It's all economics of scale, so don't blame Fox if they don't want to subsidize the format as much as Universal does who release the most and probably makes the least. Maybe thats why the PQ on their titles has gone down the pan lately?

Sonic67 · 24-09-2007, 10:27 AM

Where your argument falls down is long term. As more people buy into the format they will buy disks. So if a film like Robocop is released on Blu-ray it may well only sell 30 000 initially but the copies will then sit on shelves in stores and sell as time goes on. The longer that times goes on the more people will buy into the format and the more that people will eventually buy the disk.

My last purchase was 'Corpse Bride'. It's been out for a while but the sale is still a sale whether it was made on release or whether it was made months later. I paid full price for it.

Given long enough the sales will come.

Also remember something else. This is a fresh sale from something that has already made it’s money.

Robocop made money from worldwide cinema screenings. Then again from sales to Satellite, Cable and terrestrial channels. Again from sales to DVD, VHS, special editions and box sets. Again from video rentals and PPV. Then again from merchandise and book tie-ins.

Selling on another format is flogging a long dead horse once again and giving fresh sales.

richard plumb · 24-09-2007, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rasczak

True - there were a few very satisfactory MPEG2/BD25 releases such as Stealth. However the vast majority were below par and I think we all welcomed the move to BD50.

so perhaps we should wait until we see the discs before dismissing them out of hand?

Although I am a little concerned as i'm a big fan of both Edward Scissorhands and Robocop.

Sonic67 · 24-09-2007, 11:00 AM

I understand it the DVD is full of extras. It can't have been that difficult to port them across. Robocop was one of the few films I went to see at the cinema, loved it and then dragged my mates along to see it who also loved it. It was inspired by Judge Dredd and at the time I was a big fan of 2000AD.

There was an opportunity here to do this as a special edition with all the features. Maybe a second version will come out later. The follow up films aren't deserving of course.

I feel the same about Top Gun which also could do with being pepped up a bit given that the film is a - old and b - was a significant film in its day.

Pecker · 24-09-2007, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadAss

A Few Good Men has a PCM sound track, Fox use DTS-MA on all there titles. This comes at an additional cost to Fox which is passed on to you the consumer.

Why oh why DTA-MA?

We're already discussing the relative merits and differences (or lack thereof) of lossy vs lossless soundtracks, and even the biggest fans of lossless claim no more than a small difference on good equipment.

The differences between different lossless formats is likely to be tiny at most, and certainly not worth a 33% price hike on a film which was low budget, and with a suitably low-tech soundtrack.

You can't polish a turd. And whilst 'Robocop's soundtrack isn't that, it's certainly true that it's probably a waste of time trying to squeeze anything extra out of it by giving it the DTS-MA treatment.

Steve W

Adam_uk · 24-09-2007, 11:20 AM

[QUOTE=BadAss;5543585]A Few Good Men has a PCM sound track, Fox use DTS-MA on all there titles. This comes at an additional cost to Fox which is passed on to you the consumer.

QUOTE]

What a poor argument- they use a codec that no one can access and any player and pass the cost on to the consumer.

Why is MA more expensice the PCM/ True HD?

BadAss · 24-09-2007, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonic67

Where your argument falls down is long term.

We had LD for 20 years and those discs still cost £30+ even at the end. What makes any of us think HD-DVD or BD is going to be any less niche while this format war rages on with no end in sight?

Even if HDM takes off, long term the price of disc's comes down, licence fee's come down and prices come down in general.

At the minute we are niche, so Fox can charge what they want.

Jeff · 24-09-2007, 11:30 AM

I generally won't pay more than £15 for a catalogue title, if that means I don't get any catalogue titles from fox I can accept that. There are plenty of other films to buy.

Rasczak · 24-09-2007, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richard plumb

so perhaps we should wait until we see the discs before dismissing them out of hand?

Wasn't aware anyone had/was dimissing them? But it hardly bodes well - especially if studios are now just releasing on BD25 rather than waiting for a space on the BD50 production lines.

BadAss · 24-09-2007, 11:32 AM

[QUOTE=Adam_uk;5543994

Why is MA more expensice the PCM/ True HD?[/QUOTE]

Ask Paramount they couldnt justify the cost of True-HD on Transformers and thas going to be a 100,000+ seller.

Fox probably though every title was going to be a 100,000+ and signed up for DTS-HD before they realised this was not to be the case.

If they signed an agreement they might as well use it for the period they've paid for.

I actually like DTS-MA as you get to hear the core tack regardless of decoder.