[Rob O Blivion]

Great news over on DVD Times:

"Palisades Tartan have announced the UK Blu-ray Disc release of six titles on 2nd November 2009. Priced at £19.99 RRP each, Black Book and The Proposition are re-releases of the Tartan Blu-rays while the following are new to the format (in the UK): 36, A Tale of Two Sisters, Lady Vengeance and Sympathy for Mr. Vengeance."

The 2 Vengeance films are instant buys for me. Hopefully we'll get (at least the option of) the fade to black version of Lady Vengeance.

A Tale Of Two Sisters is also one of the better asian horrors of the last ten years, so its release is certainly welcome.

Nice to see Palisades committing to release of the best of Tartan's back catologue on blu ray.

Now, all we need is Ringu, Dark Water and Battle Royale!

Here's the link:

DVD Times - Palisades Tartan UK Blu-ray in November

[Keith Hurst]

Have to agree, the two vengeance films are a must buy to book-end my BluRay Old Boy!

KH

[Rob O Blivion]

It seems these are HMV exclusives to begin with.

[Pecker]

Waiting to see if the last one includes 'fade to b&w'.

If not, I suspect they might bring out a boxed set in the future, as they did with the SD versions.

Still...very tempting.

Steve W

[Keith Hurst]

I do enjoy Lady Vengeance, it has some incredibly dark humour in there on a subject ( like OldBoy ) that many would steer well clear of... a good point though to look out for the fade to B&W being included.

KH

[mentasm]

The fading version was a failed experiment for me. I prefer the theatrical version, especially because the fade version has a noticeably muted palette in comparison (even before it starts to fade).

[rebel_scum]

Same here, I prefer the vivid colour pallette of the theatrical version. If Tartan cock it up, I'll import the Hong Kong disc.

[mentasm]

Their DVD release was fine, apart from the fact it was interlaced. One would assume that the BDs will all be 1080/24 though.

I own way too many copies of the VT. Got the BD, Starmax SE and FE of Oldboy, the HK, US and Korean Lady V, the US and Korean Mr. V, plus the UK VT deluxe boxed set. Just need a decent version of JSA now, since the Korean Superbit is interlaced (as are the others from memory).

[Pecker]

Originally Posted by mentasm

The fading version was a failed experiment for me. I prefer the theatrical version, especially because the fade version has a noticeably muted palette in comparison (even before it starts to fade).

Failed or not, it was Park's intent. The studio nixed the idea, but he insisted on having it back for the home video release.

For me, in this age of torture porn, the idea of not wishing to overawe the audience with colour is refreshing.

Behind all the talk of 'black comedy', Lady... is an extremely uncomfortable and uncompromising viewing experience. The fact that the fade to b&w only underlines the bleakness of the subject matter, and magnifies Park's talent - the ability to unnerve without wringing every last ounce of brutality.

Steve W

[Flur]

Originally Posted by Pecker

Failed or not, it was Park's intent. The studio nixed the idea, but he insisted on having it back for the home video release.

For me, in this age of torture porn, the idea of not wishing to overawe the audience with colour is refreshing.

Behind all the talk of 'black comedy', Lady... is an extremely uncomfortable and uncompromising viewing experience. The fact that the fade to b&w only underlines the bleakness of the subject matter, and magnifies Park's talent - the ability to unnerve without wringing every last ounce of brutality.

Steve W

I agree,but the brutality is necessary in most of Park's work and it is not overly used.

[Rob O Blivion]

I personally found the fade to black version entirely successful (however, I have not seen the full colour version).

[mentasm]

Originally Posted by Pecker

Failed or not, it was Park's intent. The studio nixed the idea, but he insisted on having it back for the home video release.

I know all about the history, but the fading version was shot in colour and the transition doesn't work because the contrast isn't strong enough. It robs a beautiful film of much of its impact.

Torture porn has to be the most overused phrase in recent memory.

[rebel_scum]

I didn't find Lady Vengeance "...an extremely uncomfortable and uncompromising viewing experience."whatsover. I thought it was a gas. I'd apply it more to Mr Vengeance, which if I'm being truthful, bored the arse off me. Some lovely touches in there, but not a film I wish to re-visit anytime soon. Contrast that with Oldboy, which is one of my most double-dipped movies ever and Lady Vengeance not far behind.

That's not a hint for some arsey lecture on 'not getting' Mr Vengeance...

[mentasm]

I had the same reaction to Mr. V when I first saw it. Pretty bleak movie, mostly because the whole thing is presented from the perspective of a deaf mute, so there's no music and the sound design is pretty sparse (but still good). Oldboy I love, for no good reason other than it's stylish and well constructed, but Lady V is such a good looking film and features such a strong central performance that it easily slid into second place in my Park rankings (edged out Mr. V, JSA and Cyborg - I haven't seen Thirst yet).

[saint paul]

So great that these are finally coming out on BR, had them on order when Tartan went bust. Might have to have a BR revenge trilogy weekend

[Vipen]

I love Tartans films. A Tale of Two Sisters on BD at last

[Pecker]

Originally Posted by rebel_scum

That's not a hint for some arsey lecture on 'not getting' Mr Vengeance...

But I'm already half way through writing my lecture notes.

Originally Posted by mentasm

I know all about the history, but the fading version was shot in colour and the transition doesn't work because the contrast isn't strong enough. It robs a beautiful film of much of its impact.

I'd rather have it as the director intended with slightly diminished PQ than the other way around.

Nonetheless, I think we can all agree that it'd be useful to have both versions.

Originally Posted by mentasm

Torture porn has to be the most overused phrase in recent memory.

I think you forgot to add 'in my opinion'. It's been used a lot, but that doesn't mean it's been overused.

Steve W

[mentasm]

I made the statement, so adding 'in my opinion' is redundant - in my opinion of course

[Rob O Blivion]

Well it seems that the Palisades Tartan release of Lady Vengeance WILL be the fade-to-black version.

Hugh K. David works for the company, and is actually preparing the discs. This is great news, and those who want the colour version can still import the HK disc.

Here's the link to the post:

Blu-ray Forum - View Single Post - Ask questions to Palisades Tartan insider Hugh K. David

[Pecker]

Originally Posted by Robert S

Well it seems that the Palisades Tartan release of Lady Vengeance WILL be the fade-to-black version.

Hugh K. David works for the company, and is actually preparing the discs. This is great news, and those who want the colour version can still import the HK disc.

Here's the link to the post:

Blu-ray Forum - View Single Post - Ask questions to Palisades Tartan insider Hugh K. David

A shame they don't have both, but I'm happy.

Steve W

[mabo]

Originally Posted by Pecker

Failed or not, it was Park's intent. The studio nixed the idea, but he insisted on having it back for the home video release.

Are you saying this version is fade to white specifically at Park's insistance? As the quote from Hugh David seems to intimate it was merely down to "materials".

I'd heard that it was an idea he had played with but one that isn't proven to have been the director's intention over the colour version, rather one he prefers now that started as merely an alternate route he was looking into.

Can anyone shed any further light on whether this version was in fact his intention or just his current preference?

[mentasm]

It's unfortunate and it means I'll end up getting the HK BD.

[Pecker]

Originally Posted by mabo

Are you saying this version is fade to white specifically at Park's insistance? As the quote from Hugh David seems to intimate it was merely down to "materials".

I'd heard that it was an idea he had played with but one that isn't proven to have been the director's intention over the colour version, rather one he prefers now that started as merely an alternate route he was looking into.

Can anyone shed any further light on whether this version was in fact his intention or just his current preference?

There's an introduction by Park at the start of the 'fade' version on the Korean spec ed...but it's in Korean.

At IMDB it says he wanted the fade version but was unable to complete it in time, so left it for the DVD. At Wiki it says both version were shown in the original Korean release, but the 'fade' version only at digital cinemas.

I have the boxed-set and might wade through the extras if I get chance.

Steve W

[mentasm]

The problem with all existing versions is that the film starts off hugely desaturated compared to the theatrical version. The whites also bloom to the point that they obscure detail. If the theatrical version had just faded it wouldn't have been so bad, but the colour timing has been altered for the entire film and it just looks drab. Some of the scenes near the end are just too dark as well. Maybe the BD will rectify this, but I doubt it.

[mabo]

Originally Posted by Pecker

There's an introduction by Park at the start of the 'fade' version on the Korean spec ed...but it's in Korean.

At IMDB it says he wanted the fade version but was unable to complete it in time, so left it for the DVD. At Wiki it says both version were shown in the original Korean release, but the 'fade' version only at digital cinemas.

I have the boxed-set and might wade through the extras if I get chance.

Steve W

If you could take a look at the extras that would be great Steve as i thought, given Park's inability to speak English that the interview given in the boxset through a translator was a touch vague from what i've heard.

I just question whether the f2w version was his intention or turned out instead to be his preference after the fact a la Lucas.

Originally Posted by mentasm

The problem with all existing versions is that the film starts off hugely desaturated compared to the theatrical version. The whites also bloom to the point that they obscure detail. If the theatrical version had just faded it wouldn't have been so bad, but the colour timing has been altered for the entire film and it just looks drab. Some of the scenes near the end are just too dark as well. Maybe the BD will rectify this, but I doubt it.

This is one of my problems with that version, it doesn't appear to have been specifically lit for what we're used to seeing as a traditionally monochromatic image. From an artistic point of view it's a very interesting idea but the execution just doesn't seem to sit right with me. I'd hate to see the image ruined through poor manipulation techniques to boost the blacks and tame the whites though. Either way, it'll be interesting to see how it turns out.

Has anyone seen the various caps of the DVDs comparing the f2w and standard versions? Many seem to show that in specific shots the fine detail is more visible in the f2w when it's not in bright light. It's a film i never got around to picking up on DVD so i'd like to hear if anyone can shed any further light on this. Perhaps this print was simply deemed the more appropriate for the leap to BD.

[Pecker]

Originally Posted by mabo

If you could take a look at the extras that would be great Steve as i thought, given Park's inability to speak English that the interview given in the boxset through a translator was a touch vague from what i've heard.

I just question whether the f2w version was his intention or turned out instead to be his preference after the fact a la Lucas.

I've had a flick through some of the extras.

This is from Park’s introduction on the Tartan boxed-set (SD DVD).

The movie gradually turns black and white and eventually becomes purified and refined. This is how I intended to wrap up the movie.

From the extras disc, cinematographer Jeong-Hun Jeong:

The idea of gradually switching from colours to black and white existed even back when filming Sympathy for Mr. Vengeance as well as Oldboy. It seems the idea had been on Mr. Park’s mind for a while now.

Chan-Wook Park then says:

I could not let go of that idea. Besides, Lady Vengeance is about Geum-Ja who begins with a grudge but lets go of it through various experiences of hers. She tries to redeem herself and becomes purified. This explains the snow at the end. We wanted to create the feeling of refinement and purification. Colours are removed inconspicuously and gradually. In the end the movie ends completely black and white. A switch from colours to black and white was appropriate for the story line.

Then lighting director Hyeon-Weon Park:

We talked about this idea even when filming Oldboy. But it didn’t happen. It didn’t happen with Sympathy for Mr. Vengeance. They were all in colour. So this time I was totally determined to do it. 100 percent! We decided to gradually switch from colours to black and white. We decided to pursue this idea. We thought about this numerous times. “Are we really going to do it?”

Then Park:

But in the end my mind changed again. Honestly, I was entirely determined to do it this time, But I thought if I didn’t end up using this technique, for sure someone else would do it. And I really wanted to be the first one to use it. But then again, I did not like the idea of artificially manipulating the colours. It felt too contrived. So to avoid that, we couldn’t get ourselves to do it.

H-W P:

Even Mr.Park didn’t want to waste the colours. He couldn’t let go of the colours. Black and white just didn’t seem substantial. So we talked about keeping the colours. But then I didn’t bring out the colours as much as I could have because I thought we were going to switch to black and white. I could’ve used special filters when filming some scenes, especially the snow scene. That’s pretty unfortunate.

C-W P:

Either all colours or all black and white is fine. The middle point is the problem. About half way through the movie, it’s a bit strange. And of course, depends on how one looks at it. It could be taken as an eccentric visual effect. However, in my opinion, it felt like a commercial advertisement. It felt manipulative leaving only some colours behind. That’s why it wasn’t done again.

So it's a bit of a mixed bag, really.

It was definitely his original intent, not a concept after the fact, a la Lucas.

However, from what is said there it's not completely clear. It seems they wanted to shoot it in fade, then decided to shoot on colour, then to shoot in colour but tone down the colour, then to apply 'fade' process after the film had ended, then to release it in colour for fear people would think it 'eccentric'.

For me the important point is that it was thought of both before the film, and it affected how they shot the film.

I'll let you know if I find out any more on the commentaries.

Steve W

[mabo]

Originally Posted by Pecker

So it's a bit of a mixed bag, really.

It was definitely his original intent, not a concept after the fact, a la Lucas.

That depends if you believe Lucas' additions were in fact concepts after tha fact, as he's always maintained that they too were planned at the time.

However, from what is said there it's not completely clear. It seems they wanted to shoot it in fade, then decided to shoot on colour, then to shoot in colour but tone down the colour, then to apply 'fade' process after the film had ended, then to release it in colour for fear people would think it 'eccentric'.

It does seem that something is either being lost in translation or it was more of a general idea rather than a definite plan.

For me the important point is that it was thought of both before the film, and it affected how they shot the film.

I'll let you know if I find out any more on the commentaries.

Steve W

To me it seems more to denote that the idea of toning down colours was made beforehand, as can be seen even in the colour version, but that this was deemed not extreme enough possibly afterwards. I can't help but feel that if this truly affected the way in which the film was shot, with no colour always the intention rather than faded tones, then the results would be more striking and reflect a true black and white image.

Thanks for checking that out though.

[rebel_scum]

So, the fade to black version was the only version available to them, materials wise? Same old Tartan it seems, the HK disc has a lovely coloured transfer. Hell, it's even been released in other European territories on BD. If they made the statement of Park only wanting them to put out the FTB version, then it's a fair cop. If not, it smells of 'not being arsed'.

A Bittersweet Life:Director's Cut, get that one released, Tartan. Chop, chop!!

[Rob O Blivion]

From the various quotes above, it sounds like Park prefers the colour version to the f2w, but wanted to execute his idea before anyone else did.

Which leaves the question of 'what is the definitive version' up in the air.

[mentasm]

Flipping HK BD is twenty-odd quid. That's annoying... Don't want to risk ordering it at the moment either. Will probably end up going 'missing'.