Arcam DV88+ and Primare V25

General Skanky · 03-06-2003, 4:02 AM

I've got both of these players at home right now.

The Arcam is mine, but I've borrowed the V25 to see how they compare.

If anyone wants to know anything about them, then ask away.

So far it's been interesting.

taimur · 03-06-2003, 4:42 AM

Go on then..... which one do you prefer?! Having just bought a DV88+ and having auditioned an V20 which was a little unimpressive, I'd be interested in what you think of the two. Did you do a blinded comparison - with what music and with which films? Also, what's the rest of your set up, as I think that would make a difference to the performances of the two players.

Taimur

RossC · 03-06-2003, 1:02 PM

Hmmm, interesting 'cos my comparison was 88+, Cyrus DVD8 and the V25, as I was keen on either a complete Cyrus set up or Primare SPA20 and V25...the Arcam was just an alternative. This what I found:

Musically the order was (best to least good, as none are bad) DVD8, V25, 88+ The Cyrus is much more musical than the 88+

With video, things change, mainly because the 88+ does PAL prog scan, the V25 is supposed to do PAL prog scan, but fails on occasions and the DVD8 can't do it. 88+ prog scan is so much sharper than the DVD8, with the V25 somewhere in the middle but not consistent.

However the guys who demoed them all to me both had V25s....

.....and had them up for sale as they were'nt happy with the lip sync with Plasma screens or the incorrectly implemented PAL prog scan. Hence they weren't big fans.

General Skanky · 03-06-2003, 1:46 PM

Had a few hours last night.

Used -

LOTR Special Edition R1 (most of the scenes).

Unbreakable R1 (the bit as shown at The Event, where SLJ wheels down the dark corridor to the phone followed by BW going into the train station to touch people).

Jeepers Creepers R1 (any scene with open contryside, a lot of grass blowing in the wind etc, and the bit in the drain, lots of light to dark and back again).

13th Warrior R2 (lots of detail in this film. Anyone with a bitrate reader on this player will confirm that it was made with a lot of bits).

Just to note, Primare may well be bringing out a new player soon that would be of better comparison the the 88+.

The Arcam uses a Zoran MK 5 chipset (if that is correct), very new and brilliant. The Primare has a C-Cube Ziva 3 chipset. From the odd search, this chipset is also used in kit like the Meridian 800. So even though it's older, it's by no means a slouch. It now has a newer verion 5, that if Primare do release a newer player, that's what I'd expect to find in it.

The Arcam seems more natural looking with a normal colour to it. Detail is excellent. The picture is also rock solid stable. Audio is spot on too.

The V25 is much richer in its colour rendition. Almost like RGB is on a TV set. Very full. I had to turn my pj colour setting to cool to compensate a bit. There was the odd moment of shimmer in Jeepers Creepers. When they stop for a wee in a field, the car 'wobbled'. Also when they did a drive down a long, heat soaked road, the grasses all looked blurred, whereas the Arcam did a much better job of showing it. Another bit when she stood by the front of her car, the grill on the front 'shimmered' a touch with the V25.

Dark scenes were pretty much identical. My wife thought the Arcam was better at that, but I couldn't see any difference.

Close ups on the V25 for some reason looked better on the V25. People's faces were better.

As for audio, I couldn't really say. I haven't tried music as it's a cinema only system, but I will when I get a chance. Overall I'd say the sound is pretty much the same, but if I had to judge, I'd say the V25 was better. Will know more tonight.

The V25 I have 'looked' like it had PAL prog enabled. My dealer wasn't sure, but if that was interlaced, then wow! The 13th Warrior looked really good indeed all the way through. I can't say I saw any problems with it at all. For pal prog, it gets the thumbs up from me. The Arcam is also as very good. In this one though, I'd probably vote for the V25. I'll try the film again tonight on both to double check.

One irritating thing the V25 did was go a bit colour 'streaky' when you came out of pause or play from fast forward. Only for a second or two, but the Arcam was flawless.

One area the V25 walks all over the Arcam is in its rack presence. I mean it's a slab of design that shames the Arcam, no doubt. For me, that earns it points. If I (as I hope to maybe do), end up with Primare pre/power kit, this player would really make Mr. Average jealous. It screams high quality, high end, 'I'm better than thou'!! It'd finish off the kit nicely. The Arcam is nice, but more functional. They should employ the Primare designers, because they'd sell a bucket loads more players.

This all based on about 3 hours playing about.

I only use prog scan outputs directly to my Panasonic AE100 pj.

The differences between my Pioneer 737 (now sold) and the Arcam were slight. But between the Arcam and V25, much more apparent. As to which one you'd prefer.....?

So far, technically the Arcam is ahead. Better all rounder. Ironically, I really want to prefer the Primare.

This one may be a case of go with your head or heart.

RossC · 03-06-2003, 2:36 PM

Good review - it is a bit heart vs head isn't it. Really wanted ot love the V25, but the issues and potential issues were too great fro me. In the end I went for a DV27 which is another notch up the ladder for audio (important to me) and very good at video. Now SPA20? hmmm, silver DV27, oh dear...-

General Skanky · 03-06-2003, 2:57 PM

Hoping to find out about a new Primare player. They really need an Arcam DV88+ in a Primare box.

General Skanky · 03-06-2003, 5:35 PM

Meant to add one thing about the Arcam. I do find this annoying.

I've noticed that when connected to the prog scan outputs, the picture has a background herringbone pattern. Not too bad, but quite noticeable.

At first I thought I had a duff cable. By coiling it up it was reduced. So then I thought grounding problem, mains leads interfering etc.

I tried it back on the Pioneer 737 when I had it, and now on the Primare. Both of those are fine. I can only assume that the Arcam has a very high output at the RCA sockets. What is it, 1v peak to peak? Could that be it? Would a better? cable with better properties defeat this? I have Van Damme cables in at the moment. I think they are great and would rather dump the Arcam than mess about with cables just to suit it.

Any thoughts?

General Skanky · 03-06-2003, 5:40 PM

I've just phoned CSE and they've just told me that Primare may well release a V26, but not for about 12 months or so. Say Feb/March next year.

What to do?

Well, as I'm skiving the day off today, I'll give them both a good going over to see which I will live with.

General Skanky · 03-06-2003, 6:54 PM

Ok.

I've been getting closer to the performance of the Arcam with the Primare. Fiddling with colour, brightness etc. I'll now set them both up using Avia and Video Essentials to match/set up the players as best I can.

I've just seen the herringbone pattern on the Primare during playback, so it must be a cabling problem. Something somewhere is creating a bit of interference.

My wife is all in favour of the Arcam's abilities, and truthfully so am I. But.......... If the Primare can get close, then it will be a tough decision to make.

General Skanky · 04-06-2003, 3:53 AM

Well. A long day this has been.

To be quick, the better player was the Arcam.

It just excelled in practically all areas over the Primare. Except style.

The Primare did get close at times, and I'd say equalled the Arcam for audio, but that's it. (Didn't do a hifi test, only cinema.)

If the Arcam were a 10, the Primare would be an 8.

No matter how much I wanted the Primare, back it goes to the dealer, and I'll suffer until a V26 comes along.

Mr Bump · 04-06-2003, 1:03 PM

Thanks for all the info Skanky. Out of interest, who is it that you are demoing the players from?

General Skanky · 04-06-2003, 1:05 PM

www.signals.demon.co.uk

Can't recommend him enough. Other people on here have bought from him and will testify to how helpful/good Alastair is! He sells so much more than the website advertises. For example, he does Velodyne, Lexicon, Naim etc etc etc. Worth getting in touch with him.

General Skanky · 04-06-2003, 1:06 PM

The player I have on demo he wants to sell. It's in perfect condition, multi region and has PAL enabled. A good buy.

Mr Bump · 04-06-2003, 1:17 PM

The Primare? How much is he looking for it?

General Skanky · 04-06-2003, 1:19 PM

He 'sort of' said £750. Has warranty too. But I'm sure he's flexible.

I think he's selling it to get another dem unit from new. nothing wrong with this one at all.

Mr Bump · 04-06-2003, 1:27 PM

I'll have to look him up - that's not too far from where I work!

cameronl · 04-06-2003, 2:06 PM

nice review, thanks for the info.

CaM

RossC · 04-06-2003, 5:16 PM

May well be worth having a look at a DV27 - with the A version just out, many places will be selling off their 27s at similar prices to a V25 - definately worth a look performance wise imho.

Your reviews vindicate my conclusions too - shame because I really did fancy an all Primare set up - they certainly have the aesthetics down to a fine art, sadly unike Arcam. Perhaps the V26 will be the answer...